Consuming Oil!?!

[cevans6318]

No way. How can you possible underfill your engine if it has a full capacity of 7 quarts?

I can understand overfilling, because you didn't do a proper drain. But if you put in exactly 7 quarts, there is ZERO chance you can underfilling this engine.

Overfilling is an actual concern. If you drain while cold, you can easily leave too much oil in the engine, so when you put in 7 quarts it will be overfilled. Dealerships do this all the time, especially if they only run the engine for a couple of minutes, it won't show correctly on the dipstick and look low. Then they overfill.

But no, you cannot underfill this engine or any engine, regardless of hot or cold, if you put in the full capacity as per the manual.

its not that you have a capacity of 7 quarts, that is just what the engine calls for to be at the correct level when cold. your engine could take 15-20 quarts to completely fill the engine. when you drain the engine oil when it hot, the oil has expanded. why do you think when you check the oil level on a cold engine and then do it hot, the oil level is about 4-5mm higher, because it has expanded. the next time you do an oil change, get your engine hot and drain it till it stops draining. then do it next time cold. you will end up adding 1-4 quarts more when you drained the engine hot. that is why I never trust what the manual says for the amount of oil an engine calls for. its not always accurate.

 

[cevans6318]

remember the 7 quarts is taking into consideration only a oil and filter change. when the engine is completely empty, it may take 8-9 quarts (service manual will tell you). also think of it like this, you have 1 quart of oil cold, when hot it may be 1.5 quarts from expansion, so if you now drain that oil, you drained 1.5 quarts, not 1.0

 

[SD Rebel]

its not that you have a capacity of 7 quarts, that is just what the engine calls for to be at the correct level when cold. your engine could take 15-20 quarts to completely fill the engine. when you drain the engine oil when it hot, the oil has expanded. why do you think when you check the oil level on a cold engine and then do it hot, the oil level is about 4-5mm higher, because it has expanded. the next time you do an oil change, get your engine hot and drain it till it stops draining. then do it next time cold. you will end up adding 1-4 quarts more when you drained the engine hot. that is why I never trust what the manual says for the amount of oil an engine calls for. its not always accurate.

remember the 7 quarts is taking into consideration only a oil and filter change. when the engine is completely empty, it may take 8-9 quarts (service manual will tell you).

We aren't doing rebuilds here where all the oil is drained from every pipe and cooler, just an oil drain and filter change. And based on the service manual, it takes exactly 7 quarts to fill up to the top hatch mark.

You can get the impression of being underfilled if you add new oil, run it a couple of minutes, and check the dipstick. It will appear low because the oil isn't fully warmed up and it hasn't fully drained to the pan, giving the impression of too low of oil. You need to drive a couple of miles to get the oil up to temp, then check it, it will show accurately then. This false underfilling is a big reason why so many people overfill their engines.

That is likely what you are seeing. Because again, the capacity of most engines with filter is very accurate. There is not enough of a temperature change and oil capacity to make a 2-3 quart difference when filling up using the recommended amount of oil.

There are plenty of articles and threads about overfilling motors, if you can just show me one that shows using the recommended amount of oil could result in underfilling, I would love to see that.

 

[cevans6318]

We aren't doing rebuilds here where all the oil is drained from every pipe and cooler, just an oil drain and filter change. And based on the service, it takes exactly 7 quarts to fill up to the top hatch mark.

You can get the impression of being underfilled if you add new oil, run it a couple of minutes, and check the dipstick. It will appear low because the oil isn't fully warmed up and it hasn't fully drained to the pan, giving the impression of too low of oil. You need to drive a couple of miles to get the oil up to temp, then check it, it will show accurately then.

That is likely what you are seeing. Because again, the capacity of most engines with filter is very accurate. There is not enough of a temperature change and oil capacity to make a 2-3 quart different when filling up using the recommended amount of oil.

you would be suprised on how much the oil expands when hot. I’ve been doing this for 16 years trust me when you drain an engine that is fully hot versus draining an engine that is bone cold and you fill both engines up with what the manual calls for,
You are going to be adding more oil to the engine that you drained that was fully hot versus the one that was cold. And also this is assuming that you let that hot engine get cold before you add the oil. Again you need to take into consideration expansion. You don’t understand how many technicians out there don’t understand that when doing an oil change. The same goes when they drain an engine that is hot and then refill that hot engine with cold oil. As soon as you start circulating that cold oil through that hot motor that oil is already getting hot and will expand. Technicians will still fill the dipstick up to the max mark and then as soon as that engine is cold that level will be a lot lower.

 

[SD Rebel]

you would be suprised on how much the oil expands when hot. I’ve been doing this for 16 years trust me when you drain an engine that is fully hot versus draining an engine that is bone cold and you fill both engines up with what the manual calls for,
You are going to be adding more oil to the engine that you drained that was fully hot versus the one that was cold. And also this is assuming that you let that hot engine get cold before you add the oil. Again you need to take into consideration expansion. You don’t understand how many technicians out there don’t understand that when doing an oil change. The same goes when they drain an engine that is hot and then refill that hot engine with cold oil. As soon as you start circulating that cold oil through that hot motor that oil is already getting hot and will expand. Technicians will still fill the dipstick up to the max mark and then as soon as that engine is cold that level will be a lot lower.

Sure, but 2-3 quarts too low from a 5.7L engine with a 7 quart capacity? There is not enough temperature difference from hot to cold to hide that much fluid.

I've been doing this for just as long as you, I have never ever seen a case when a crankcase was underfilled by using the factory recommended amount of oil. I've seen it overfilled plenty of times. The most common mistake dealerships and lube places do is overfill the engine oil. They simply don't do a proper drain and overfill when putting the recommended amount. Or they don't allow the oil to get up to temp, and it reads low, and they accidentally put too much oil in.

Again, if you can show me something that states it is possible, that if you put the exact amount of oil recommended, that you can underfill the crankcase due to temps, I would love to read it and be happy I learned a new thing. I've never seen or heard that before in my life, but with that being said, I respect your opinion and open minded regarding this subject. I'll try to research it myself as well.

 

[cevans6318]

I've been doing this for just as long as you, I have never ever seen a case when a crankcase was underfilled by using the factory recommended amount of oil. I've seen it overfilled plenty of times. The most common mistake dealerships and lube places do is overfill the engine oil. They simply don't do a proper drain and overfill when putting the recommended amount. Or they don't allow the oil to get up to temp, and it reads low, and they accidentally put too much oil in.

Again, if you can show me something that states it is possible, that if you put the exact amount of oil recommended, that you can underfill the crankcase due to temps, I would love to read it and be happy I learned a new thing. I've never seen or heard that before in my life, but with that being said, I respect your opinion and open minded regarding this subject. I'll try to research it myself as well.

Every engine is different. I’m only speaking from experiences with Mercedes Benz engines. The 157 amg engines, when the warning light comes on that the oil levels too low it usually takes 2 to 3 quarts of oil to get it back up to max spec on the dipstick. Other engines it may take a quart. At the same time I respect your opinion as well. There is still a lot of stuff that I haven’t seen that others have and vice versa. We all do learn something new every day

 

[SD Rebel]

Every engine is different. I’m only speaking from experiences with Mercedes Benz engines. The 157 amg engines, when the warning light comes on that the oil levels too low it usually takes 2 to 3 quarts of oil to get it back up to max spec on the dipstick. Other engines it may take a quart.

That's something I'm not familiar with, absolutely. I only have experience with the Mercedes M112 E32 engine in my Crossfire, which matches my experiences. But like I said, I'm open minded, you spent years with Mercedes engines and your know your stuff. I can't argue with that.

My experiences have been the opposite, so we are probably both right given the scenarios we are talking about. The one thing I can say, is for our RAMs, 7 quarts won't underfill regardless of temps. That the OP was probably screwed by the dealership by the tech underfilling his oil by literally not putting in 7 quarts.

 

[2021QCBH]

My 21 5.7 is 5500 miles in on its 2nd oil change. I changed the factory fill at 2500 miles. I hot drained and filled exactly 7qts. It sits exactly at the full hole/mark on the dipstick and hasn’t moved at all over these 5500 miles. Pennzoil platinum used on the oil change.

Hemis have been known to use a little oil always. My 2010 (bought at 20k miles and sold at 140k miles) would use about a pint or a little more on a 6k OCI. Not enough to top off.

My 2008 for some reason was a oil burning machine. Ran fabulously and never any smoke. It got a little hot once when the thermostat stuck and didn’t seem to be using oil before that. 3/4 on the non numerical gauge. After that it was using about 1 qt every 1000 miles. I played around with oil brands and got it down to about 2.5 per 6k OCI with some valvoline synthetic high mileage.

In my experience, If you hot drain a 5.7 including the filter it’s always exactly on the full mark with 7qts. If you check your oil temp while doing a change the fresh oil put back in will already be nearly the same temp before you have the vehicle back on the ground. At least enough to call it not cold oil.

I’ve never seen an engine run higher on the stick due to oil expansion and I’ve likely changed oil in the neighborhood of 1000 different vehicles in my life (family was a car dealer in my younger years)

Trans fluid will expand noticeably when hot vs cold hence the temperature markings and procedures to check.

 

[Reverse]

Just wanted to comment here that your dealer is full of Sh*t. When you have 15% left on your oil (according to counter), then you are not 3000 miles overdue. Don't let them push this on you. They changed the oil, they own this and should fix it.

Start communicating in writing (email) and make notes of all communications so far.

Also, get an oil sample over to Blackstone labs to find out if it did any damage. Let them know why you are sending the sample and they will will let you know if you need to be concerned.

 

[mikeru82]

Just wanted to comment here that your dealer is full of Sh*t. When you have 15% left on your oil (according to counter), then you are not 3000 miles overdue. Don't let them push this on you. They changed the oil, they own this and should fix it.

Start communicating in writing (email) and make notes of all communications so far.

Also, get an oil sample over to Blackstone labs to find out if it did any damage. Let them know why you are sending the sample and they will will let you know if you need to be concerned.

Exactly what I was wondering. How can your oil life indicator show 15% life if you're 3k miles overdue. What oil change interval are they using? The owner's manual calls for the OCI to be 12 months or 10k miles for normal service.

Something else that doesn't make sense to me is this...you said your truck has 13k miles on it. Dealership says you're 3k miles overdue, and should have been changed at 10k. You said the dealership did the last oil change. When did that oil change happen? Simple math would mean they did the oil change when the truck was brand new, if it's now 3k miles overdue.