Ceramic Coating Failure Or Unreal Expectations?

[drush]

Hey everyone,

I bought my truck about 3 weeks ago. Immediately from the lot drove to a local detailer who has been in business for over 30 years for ceramic coating. He used a Team Puris product with two coats. I washed the truck by hand a few days ago and noticed some scratches and then started noticing lots of swirl marks and things. Washed it again today with a power wash and I'm finding them everywhere. I used a microfiber mitt from Simoniz and the Chemical Guys towels to dry. I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on. In my mind, the ceramic coating should prevent things like this and I shouldn't even be getting the marks in the first place using these towels etc.

What do you guys think? Are my expectations of the coating unrealistic? Is this unavoidable or am I using crap mitt/towels....maybe detailer guy didn't do any paint correction despite telling me he did. So frustrated and looking to see how you guys would handle it.

Thanks,

 

[Saints]

You’re being unrealistic. Ceramic will not prevent swirls or scratches at all, plus you have a black truck. You can almost just look at a black car and get a scratch without even touching it. All a ceramic coating is going to do is help keep it clean longer and help stuff like sap and bird droppings from ruining the clear coat as fast.

 

[troutspinner]

You're not going to get scratch protection with ceramic coating. Just easier cleaning and more time between having to clean. All of the other "good washing habits" have to be maintained.

 

[Mile High Magic]

I agree with Saints - The Ceramic coating is there to protect against sun fading, permanent water spots, and an EASIER way to keep your truck clean (it's has hydrophobic properties that make it much more difficult for dirt/sap/bird **** to stick to your paint). It will NOT protect against swirls/chips...I mean, it does create an extra "hardness", but not enough to stop improper washing (brush washes, dirty rags, etc) or scratching effects.

Typically, a shop will do the paint correction first - depending on the severity of the existing swirls/imperfections, THAT stage should be where they really get the mirror finish. They should be polishing/buffing all of those swirls down. They'll apply the coating afterwards.

The ****ty part, is that the swirls could have (and most likely did) come from whoever detailed your truck at the dealership. They give zero ****s typically, as the lot techs / washing companies they hire are getting through as many vehicles as possible, and they usually don't have anwyhere NEAR the amount of care that you do, when washing your truck.

With that being said, it's very likely that the Ceramic shop either didn't do anything, didn't do the PROPER type of correction, or you were the unfortunate recipient of some ******* bumping up against your truck.

We have coatings done on our vehicles all the time, and if they're NEW cars, they look damn near perfect. Paint correction isn't always going to come out looking like that on every car, and they'll usually tell you beforehand or directly afterward if that's the case. You see it mostly on older vehicles, where paint can be thinner/aged on certain parts of the vehicle, and it's tougher to work on because they don't want to burn through it. You would hope that wouldn't be the case on a brand new truck!

As for what I'd recommend...I'd go back into the shop, and ask to have a conversation with whomever sold you the treatment. Explain what your expectations were, what the issues are, and what you can do to remedy the situation. You MIGHT be S.o.l., if they try to use the "it's been 3 weeks, you could've done this by going through a wash/using dirty towels/etc he said she said", but it's worth having the conversation at least. Small business owners, in my experience, respond well when their customers have a legitimate concern.

Good luck!

 

[doug55579]

Although I don't have the ceramic coating, I can relate to the frustration. High Mile is correct with saying the dealer may have caused some of the issues. My black truck was a day old and I had not even washed it yet and I found swirls and minor scratches.

 

[jb772]

I've been doing detailing for some time now including paint correction and ceramic coating and have seen prices vary from $300 to $3000 for the same things - with that being said, you pay for what you get and going cheap isn't always the option, but getting raped by a detailer is never the option either and prices can vary depending on tons of different things. If you don't mind me asking, what did you pay? That will help me get a better understanding on how much time and effort this guy should have put into the truck. I personally have never heard of that ceramic coating brand but now the market is flooded with different brands that it gets hard to keep up with.

 

[riccnick]

Hey everyone,

I bought my truck about 3 weeks ago. Immediately from the lot drove to a local detailer who has been in business for over 30 years for ceramic coating. He used a Team Puris product with two coats. I washed the truck by hand a few days ago and noticed some scratches and then started noticing lots of swirl marks and things. Washed it again today with a power wash and I'm finding them everywhere. I used a microfiber mitt from Simoniz and the Chemical Guys towels to dry. I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on. In my mind, the ceramic coating should prevent things like this and I shouldn't even be getting the marks in the first place using these towels etc.

What do you guys think? Are my expectations of the coating unrealistic? Is this unavoidable or am I using crap mitt/towels....maybe detailer guy didn't do any paint correction despite telling me he did. So frustrated and looking to see how you guys would handle it.

Thanks,

The ceramic coating is essentially the sacrificial layer, taking the scratches and swirls so your paint doesn't have to. However, its SUPER thin, especially compared to the clear coat layer, so there's only so much physical protection it can provide. The hydrophobic properties and the little bit extra gloss it provides to the paint are really the biggest benefits.

Was the paint corrected before the coating was applied? Even on a brand new truck, this is required, and many detailers try to skip the work and the extra cost.

Mine was six plus hours of three stage correction before it was ready for coating. And that was with a brand new truck.

 

[danielle2019]

I knew ceramic was not a 'scratch protection' but I seriously thought it would resist swirls from a microfiber towel.

 

[riccnick]

I knew ceramic was not a 'scratch protection' but I seriously thought it would resist swirls from a microfiber towel.

You can swirl and scratch with a microfiber wayyyyy easier than people think, especially with cheap micro's. Yes, the ceramic is harder than clear coat, but it's not indestructible. Think of it like wearing gloves when handling something sharp. Yeah, the gloves offer some protection, but you can still cut yourself.

There's really no way to contact your paint and not damage it somehow, this is especially true when its dry. Even your fingers will leave scratches. The key is minimizing the damage with whatever method(s) and tool(s) you're using. Lubrication (soap and water, spray wax, quick detailer spray, etc, etc) combined with high quality microfiber is generally the best way

 

[dutchman187]

Really tough to narrow down when those swirls appeared. They might have done a crap job on correction, or worse yet used a glaze to give the appearance of correction until you did your first wash. Alternatively they might have done a fantastic job and you caused the damage yourself with your wash media. And to echo everyone else,

I knew ceramic was not a 'scratch protection' but I seriously thought it would resist swirls from a microfiber towel.

Depends on the amount of pressure being applied and what might be trapped in the towell. If i ever drop a towel it goes straight in the "wheels only" bin. (Not blaming the OP) I'd wonder if the correction was ever really performed or worse yet if a glaze was used to temporarily give the illusion of correction.

 

[WasatchBack]

I have detailed as a side job on very high end cars since the mid 90s, I'm talking rare Porsches and custom Bentley's for extremely discerning Connecticut clients. While I don't know the detailer you used I can say 3 things here: 1. To me those pics look like your wash induced swirls and micromarring. 2. In order to maintain a near perfect finish on a black vehicle you need to keep flawless and insanely ana1 wash/ upkeep practices. Your weekly wash, once you are well trained, will take you 2+ hours for a nearly perfectly clean car to begin with. Black is a full time job, ceramic coated or not. 3. Ceramic coatings have not existed for 30 years, nowhere close.

 

[riccnick]

Your weekly wash, once you are well trained, will take you 2+ hours for a nearly perfectly clean car to begin with. Black is a full time job, ceramic coated or not. 3. Ceramic coatings have not existed for 30 years, nowhere close.

There's no way a maintenance wash should take 2 hours. My truck is black, and while I take every precaution I can, it doesn't take me two hours every week to keep it clean. Doing the wheels, exterior wash, spray detail dry, and wiping down the interior is an hour, and that's with two bucket method combined with a foam cannon, so I'm doing double duty with setup and cleanup.

I don't think he was saying the detailer did coatings for 30 years, I think he meant the detailer was in business for 30 years. From what I understand, coatings are new to the US in the last few years, but have been popular in Asia and Europe for a lot longer, some sources say as early as the late 90's (not sure I believe that, but whatever...)

 

[Sfoster0717]

Well just from my experience I’ve had 3 separate trucks coated all from different installers/detailers. Two of the trucks were black and one was my new silver/black rebel. If they are using a quality ceramic coating such as IGL, Ceramic pro, or Sea quarts they have a 9H hardness factor which will prevent light swirl marks, unless you are using a cheap microfiber, so will running your truck through a automatic car wash or not “lubing” the paint enough prior to rubbing the dirt against the paint/ceramic coating. As said above anything can scratch it. You are set up for failure from the gate owning a black truck. Especially a black truck with no flake/metallic in the paint. Once again as other said above if they didn’t prep the truck properly(paint correction) the swirls will show through the ceramic coatings for sure. The two black trucks I had done were two totally different outcomes. The first one came out and looked amazing it was a brand new truck untouched by any local car lot detailers/wash boys. The truck looked wet all the time. No swirls no haze nothing it was spot on. It continued to look this way for the next 3 years of me owning it. I also only took it to him to wash it that truck was never washed at home or by some random guy that details on the side for a couple bucks. The second black truck I bought was a left over that was on the lot for over a year and washed multiple times by the lot guys and local pressure washing crew. This truck once ceramic coated didn’t look nearly as good as the first. I had the same issue your having I could still see swirls in the paint and it drove me nuts to the point where I sold the truck a year later swearing I would never buy another black vehicle. So this time around I bought a silver with black two tone rebel. To remedy the crappy black paint on the lower doors and rockers. I wrapped them in a matte paint protection film then had the whole truck coated. Once again amazing results. Now silver hides a lot and I ordered this truck so it didn’t sit on a lot getting the step child treatment from the lot kids. Don’t get me wrong ceramic coating is amazing if you don’t like washing your truck and it will help deter swirl marks but only if your careful. Good luck with your adventures hopefully next time around you buy white or silver . The only thing that will protect against scratches is PPF which is my specialty I’ve been doing it for almost 15 years now.

 

[dsn112]

I detail on the side, but used to in college full time. Ive coated a handful of cars, but I usually talk people out of it. Ceramic Pros BS marketing has created a false image of what coatings do. Customers all thing that once their car is coated it is bullet proof, and obviously it isn't close. Swirls happen, even to the most careful detailer with the best equipment.

My record is swirled to hell from the dealer. It is bright red so it is harder to see, but I see it everyday. When I finally get time I will polish it out and put a coat of sealant on it and be good.

 

[drush]

I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to reply - it is extremely helpful. I think I clearly did not research ceramic coating enough to fully understand what it would do. There's obviously a few factors at play here which are likely some crappy paint correction and then possibly the microfiber wash mitt and towels I'm using are not the best (although I would have thought a Simoniz mitt the Chemical Guys towels would be okay).

At the end of the day, I'm going to talk to my detailer about this as I really don't think that after 3 weeks and only two washes it should look like this if proper paint correction was done. We will have to see what he says. Ultimately, I would still recommend the ceramic coating to anyone because the look and ease of washing makes a big difference BUT make sure you do your research on who's applying it and what the product is as I have a feeling this product is junk too.

Thanks again everyone, really appreciate everyone's detailed replies and opinions.

 

[Clean19]

I knew ceramic was not a 'scratch protection' but I seriously thought it would resist swirls from a microfiber towel.

I bet they were already there and the detailer just threw on the coating.. very common practice.

 

[Clean19]

I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to reply - it is extremely helpful. I think I clearly did not research ceramic coating enough to fully understand what it would do. There's obviously a few factors at play here which are likely some crappy paint correction and then possibly the microfiber wash mitt and towels I'm using are not the best (although I would have thought a Simoniz mitt the Chemical Guys towels would be okay).

At the end of the day, I'm going to talk to my detailer about this as I really don't think that after 3 weeks and only two washes it should look like this if proper paint correction was done. We will have to see what he says. Ultimately, I would still recommend the ceramic coating to anyone because the look and ease of washing makes a big difference BUT make sure you do your research on who's applying it and what the product is as I have a feeling this product is junk too.

Thanks again everyone, really appreciate everyone's detailed replies and opinions.

Are you saying the scratches / swirls were not there before the coating? Because the coating should resist swirl makes really well for the first 3 months, so again, I'm assuming they were already there. There are a TON of detailers out there who will wash, polish, and apply the coating. You reallllllly should clay and compound as well because as you're not experiencing, the paint condition is sort of trapped underneath the coating and depending on brand could be difficult to remove...

 

[db682]

How long did they take to prep and do the coatings? Did you leave it, at least, over night? The coatings we do on our trucks are done in a enclosed environment and are parked for about 24hrs at a minimum afterwards to allow a majority of the coating to cure out. This is the recommended procedure from just about all coating manufacturers. They detail the trucks to near perfection. Prep for coating. Coat truck. Leave parked indoors at least overnight (we try to get them done on Fridays and leave them over the weekend if possible). Then we give them back to our guys.

 

[drush]

Are you saying the scratches / swirls were not there before the coating? Because the coating should resist swirl makes really well for the first 3 months, so again, I'm assuming they were already there. There are a TON of detailers out there who will wash, polish, and apply the coating. You reallllllly should clay and compound as well because as you're not experiencing, the paint condition is sort of trapped underneath the coating and depending on brand could be difficult to remove...

Well I don't technically know because I didn't look very closely beforehand - the look I did take didn't seem to show much.

How long did they take to prep and do the coatings? Did you leave it, at least, over night? The coatings we do on our trucks are done in a enclosed environment and are parked for about 24hrs at a minimum afterwards to allow a majority of the coating to cure out. This is the recommended procedure from just about all coating manufacturers. They detail the trucks to near perfection. Prep for coating. Coat truck. Leave parked indoors at least overnight (we try to get them done on Fridays and leave them over the weekend if possible). Then we give them back to our guys.

I don't know the exact breakdown but the truck was with them for 2 days - the last 24 hours of which he said are to make sure it's inside and not exposed to the elements so the coating can cure.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Dang, this thread should be made a sticky with “Before you buy a black vehicle” as the heading. I’ve known for years that black looked wonderful when clean, and that lasted maybe an hour.
Here in NC the spring pollen is murder on dark finishes. Even shows on my Ivory...