Can a 'kill switch' be added via software to existing trucks?

[JimKIII]

I know politics is banned on this forum. This post relates to technical questions that relate to recently passed legislation. Not wanting political opinions at all - just technical.

Buried in the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act (H.R.3684) just signed into law is Sec. 24220 - 'Advanced Impaired Driving Technology'. Basically, this requires all auto manufacturers to implement monitoring systems and a kill switch within three years: '...to be equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.'

Questions for anyone with knowledge about the existing systems in our new trucks including factory-ordered 2022s; i.e., EPROMS, over-the-air updates, ECM/PCM, etc:

1. To implement a monitoring system capable of shutting down the truck, would new hardware and wiring, along with software, need to be installed?

2. Or could just a software update (updated over the air) be enough to add kill-switch capability to existing trucks?

If #1 is 'Yes', then my 2022 on order will be that last new rig I'll ever purchase.

If #2 is 'Yes', then serious remediation steps must be discussed (somewhere) to prevent such functionality from being quietly installed on existing rigs.

The legislation doesn't require 'Advanced Impaired Driving Technology' to be installed retroactively. But, if only a software update is required for such a serious function then the legislation doesn't need to be that specific.

Thoughts?

 

[Mountain Whiskey]

I don't think it is currently embedded in the truck. This is likely another fantasy pipe dream from the back of the opium den. While it sounds really nice on the outside, it is really kind of like saying "we now mandate all to be kind gentle and nice to each other at all times, skipping, singing happy songs and spreading flower pedals forevermore. If you do not comply we will apply electro shock treatment to your genitals until you do".

How do you keep it from false positive shutdowns? I knew a guy that had one of these on his truck. It was constantly having to go to the shop with a problem. It wasn't even his drinking problem. Well, at least not every time. The technology for this has a long way to go and it will wreak havoc with everyday people.

But, our old used cars will be worth a fortune!

 

[piening2150]

You need hardware to monitor the driver for impairment first (cameras, breathalyzer, steering wheel sensors, whatever). So if you have a Tesla, MB, Cadillac, Subaru, etc with driver monitoring tech already in them (to monitor drowsiness or driver attentiveness for self driving BS), then I'd say yes those vehicles could possibly be updated via software to also include drunk driving prevention functionality. Rams don't currently have any driver monitoring hardware so no software update is going to be able to add that functionality.

 

[bigdodge]

wouldn't something like this be good as an antitheft feature?

I am really worried that these trucks do not have an antitheft feature

lots of trucks are stolen around here everyday.

 

[piening2150]

wouldn't something like this be good as an antitheft feature?

I am really worried that these trucks do not have an antitheft feature

lots of trucks are stolen around here everyday.

Only if the thief is drunk.

 

[djevox]

I give close to a 0% of this chance happening within 3 years, but if it does happen, it will be a big business for companies that can bypass this. It should be pretty easy to bypass, after all, it’s just code that’s controlling it.

 

[djevox]

wouldn't something like this be good as an antitheft feature?

I am really worried that these trucks do not have an antitheft feature

lots of trucks are stolen around here everyday.

Not sure if you’re talking about older trucks, but you’re not hotwiring a 5th gen ram. People who are stealing it without a key are hauling it away.

 

[bigdodge]

Only if the thief is drunk.

no comment

 

[bigdodge]

Not sure if you’re talking about older trucks, but you’re not hotwiring a 5th gen ram. People who are stealing it without a key are hauling it away.

no, apparently they have figured out how to steal the fob codes

 

[djevox]

no, apparently they have figured out how to steal the fob codes

A middle schooler could figure that out if they wanted to. All they have to do is be in range when somebody uses a key fob, and they can intercept the signal. You can build a device to do this for less than a few dollars. A lot of criminals that do things fall under the category of crime of opportunity, so they’re not going through the trouble of doing that. This isn’t like the older Chryslers where you could steal it with a butter knife.

 

[bigdodge]

A middle schooler could figure that out if they wanted to. All they have to do is be in range when somebody uses a key fob, and they can intercept the signal. You can build a device to do this for less than a few dollars. A lot of criminals that do things fall under the category of crime of opportunity, so they’re not going through the trouble of doing that. This isn’t like the older Chryslers where you could steal it with a butter knife.

so would a device like talked about in post ONE prevent this????


my question caused everyone to get off track.

 

[djevox]

so would a device like talked about in post ONE prevent this????


my question caused everyone to get off track.

I’m not really sure the thread is off track yet, but that’s just my opinion. What are you referring to? I’m not sure I understand since the first post was talking about the legislation.

 

[bigdodge]

I’m not really sure the thread is off track yet, but that’s just my opinion. What are you referring to? I’m not sure I understand since the first post was talking about the legislation.

"Or could just a software update (updated over the air) be enough to add kill-switch capability to existing trucks?"

I asked can something like this be used for antitheft.

that is all I asked

 

[c3k]

If this gets implemented, there will be an addendum to allow law enforcement to selectively, or blanket, kill vehicles. They'll use the example of the attack in Wekausha (sp?). "What if a police officer had had a kill switch that would've immobilized every vehicle in 100 yards? It would've saved lives..."
Or, the example of "tight beam" aimed ahead of a pursuing police car to immobilize the vehicle being chased. Or, my car got jacked and mah baby is in it...remote kill.

There will be a LOT of reasons given to allow government to control private vehicles.

(I won't even get into the pollution/fuel conservation arguments. Those of you of my age may remember the odd/even days to buy gas. Imagine the same idea but to control emissions. Yeah...I see the government types LOVING this.)

 

[djevox]

"Or could just a software update (updated over the air) be enough to add kill-switch capability to existing trucks?"

I asked can something like this be used for antitheft.

that is all I asked

Yes, the systems we have in our trucks could already allow for that. For example, the system that allows Wi-Fi in the truck could communicate with a smart phone or other device for proximity. We could even go “black mirror” style and a chip implanted on our body could communicate when we go out the fence. If we’re not in range, then nothing would start the truck. Of course, all the safeties in the world won’t stop somebody from dragging it up onto a rollback.

 

[piening2150]

If this gets implemented, there will be an addendum to allow law enforcement to selectively, or blanket, kill vehicles. They'll use the example of the attack in Wekausha (sp?). "What if a police officer had had a kill switch that would've immobilized every vehicle in 100 yards? It would've saved lives..."
Or, the example of "tight beam" aimed ahead of a pursuing police car to immobilize the vehicle being chased. Or, my car got jacked and mah baby is in it...remote kill.

There will be a LOT of reasons given to allow government to control private vehicles.

(I won't even get into the pollution/fuel conservation arguments. Those of you of my age may remember the odd/even days to buy gas. Imagine the same idea but to control emissions. Yeah...I see the government types LOVING this.)

That's already a thing. OnStar equipped GM vehicles can be remotely disabled at the request of law enforcement or owner.

Site Maintenance

 

[c3k]

That's already a thing. OnStar equipped GM vehicles can be remotely disabled at the request of law enforcement or owner.

Site Maintenance

Yeah...prevent them from "restarting". Because they are afraid of lawsuits if they SHUT IT OFF. So, thief/carjacker gets to continue at whatever speed and distance.

I remember the debates: what about liability if the thief gets shut down during a highway merge or a turn? Lol...why not just let the thief take the blame? But we digress...

 

[GKIII]

Your truck already has the ability to be turned on and off remotely.

 

[piening2150]

Yeah...prevent them from "restarting". Because they are afraid of lawsuits if they SHUT IT OFF. So, thief/carjacker gets to continue at whatever speed and distance.

I remember the debates: what about liability if the thief gets shut down during a highway merge or a turn? Lol...why not just let the thief take the blame? But we digress...

"Advisors can utilize GPS technology to help authorities locate your vehicle and, when conditions are appropriate, remotely slow it down.*"

With a paid subscription of course.

 

[Eighty]

Not sure if you’re talking about older trucks, but you’re not hotwiring a 5th gen ram. People who are stealing it without a key are hauling it away.

A guy on the TRX forum just had his Redeye stolen in 30 seconds (no key fob cloning - the thieves pulled some wiring) - it's all on video. These vehicles are extremely easy to steal for someone who knows what they're doing.