Blackstone oil analysis, high iron and copper only have 22k miles on engine

[silver billet]

Why wants to give $60 for a "gallon" of Redline? F*** that. Its only 4 quarts as well.

Yeah its definitely pricey. HPL is even more costly IIRC.

 

[BowDown]

Wow, oil threads never fail to deliver.

That being said, it's clear thicker oil does offer better overall protection than a thinner oil. However, until I can confirm (which I am working on now) that the thicker oil doesn't interfere with upper valvetrain lubrication (which has been mentioned by certain engine builders on the Hemi), I'm going to stick with the OEM recommendation.

In the end, the issues that happen with the Hemi 5.7L may not be even associated with the oil weight, but simply faulty parts, such as the roller bearings that I remember reading have a 10% failure rate due to manufacture.

That's exactly where the heavier weight oil can and usually does cause the issue. Both VVT and MDS are hydraulicly driven systems. Too heavy a weight oil will not flow through the oil passages correctly

 

[BowDown]

It's a part of it yes. Higher viscosity = higher MOFT.



Hemi tick as a thing only came out around 2009. Pre eagle heads were susceptible to floating valves. No doubt you can find small cases where lifters failed pre 2009 as well, but it was never an "epidemic" like it is on certain years (2009 to 2014-ish are the worst). This comes straight from the mouths of certificed FCA mechanics who fix these things. You can find one on YT if you wish, look for Reignited.

Heads don't cause valve float; cam lobe design and spring open pressure are the only 2 factors in that. The main difference in the eagle vs pre eagle heads are in the d shaped ports, quench area, a 2.05 intake valve, no EGR and rocker arm pedestal height.

 

[SD Rebel]

That's exactly where the heavier weight oil can and usually does cause the issue. Both VVT and MDS are hydraulicly driven systems. Too heavy a weight oil will not flow through the oil passages correctly

I will mention that when Ford introduced their modular engines in late 90s, they were at 5W-30. Then in year 2000, they switched to 5W-20. They even back specced previously built motors to 5W-20 even though they are no longer counted with CAFE.

Their reasoning was that the thinner oil, while does improve mpg, also lubricated the modular line of motors better, so they recommended it to previously built motors. Not sure if this applies to the Hemi, but it could I suppose. But while I'm under warranty, my motivation is to stay with 5W-20W, for now at least unless I find info to the contrary.

Even though our Toyota 2.0L & new Suburban 6.2L both recommend 0W-20, I'm not married to that oil if it's proven to be only for fuel economy at the expense of durability. The search continues

 

[HSKR R/T]

It's a part of it yes. Higher viscosity = higher MOFT.



Hemi tick as a thing only came out around 2009. Pre eagle heads were susceptible to floating valves. No doubt you can find small cases where lifters failed pre 2009 as well, but it was never an "epidemic" like it is on certain years (2009 to 2014-ish are the worst). This comes straight from the mouths of certificed FCA mechanics who fix these things. You can find one on YT if you wish, look for Reignited.

Hemi tick was around since the beginning. It's not something that suddenly popped up in 2009. It has been discussed on LXforums since 2005.

 

[silver billet]

That's exactly where the heavier weight oil can and usually does cause the issue. Both VVT and MDS are hydraulicly driven systems. Too heavy a weight oil will not flow through the oil passages correctly

That's incorrect. These hemis use a postive displacement oil pump, the same volume of oil goes through regardless of viscosity. PSI increases a bit as a result, there is no reduction in oil flow or any other issue.

 

[silver billet]

Heads don't cause valve float; cam lobe design and spring open pressure are the only 2 factors in that. The main difference in the eagle vs pre eagle heads are in the d shaped ports, quench area, a 2.05 intake valve, no EGR and rocker arm pedestal height.

Of course heads don't cause valve float. I said on the pre eagle head design, valve float was an issue. They corrected that problem at the same the 2009 revision was released (eagle heads).

 

[silver billet]

Hemi tick was around since the beginning. It's not something that suddenly popped up in 2009. It has been discussed on LXforums since 2005.

You can find isolated cases but it wasn't a massive problem until 2009. Straight from a number of mechanics mouths, my friend.

But the exact dates/time frame is a side issue and not the real problem. The real problem is that hemi tick exists in higher than normal numbers, and a great way to reduce your chances is to run a high quality oil, which, viscosity is part of.

 

[HSKR R/T]

You can find isolated cases but it wasn't a massive problem until 2009. Straight from a number of mechanics mouths, my friend.

But the exact dates/time frame is a side issue and not the real problem. The real problem is that hemi tick exists in higher than normal numbers, and a great way to reduce your chances is to run a high quality oil, which, viscosity is part of.

The formal recognition of it by "mechanics" doesn't mean that's when the issue started. But nice back peddling

 

[HSKR R/T]

FWIW, this is what I am running in my Ram. Owner of BND is a Mopar guy and owns a few Hemis, both old and new. This oil is custom blended for each customer. It's not some one size fits most blend with standard viscosity ratings.

 

[silver billet]

I will mention that when Ford introduced their modular engines in late 90s, they were at 5W-30. Then in year 2000, they switched to 5W-20. They even back specced previously built motors to 5W-20 even though they are no longer counted with CAFE.

Their reasoning was that the thinner oil, while does improve mpg, also lubricated the modular line of motors better, so they recommended it to previously built motors. Not sure if this applies to the Hemi, but it could I suppose. But while I'm under warranty, my motivation is to stay with 5W-20W, for now at least unless I find info to the contrary.

Even though our Toyota 2.0L & new Suburban 6.2L both recommend 0W-20, I'm not married to that oil if it's proven to be only for fuel economy at the expense of durability. The search continues

Speaking of Ford, guess who recently changed back to 5w-30?

https://media.ford.com/content/dam/fordmedia/North%20America/US/product/2021/f150/pdfs/2021-F-150-Technical-Specs.pdf

 

[silver billet]

The formal recognition of it by "mechanics" doesn't mean that's when the issue started. But nice back peddling

I literally said that the first time in post #50, nice try though.

 

[bigdodge]

Check out this thread for a good read:

Are thinner oils about fuel economy or tighter engines?

Always thought it was only about fuel economy but with better manufacturing techniques and wanting better performance squeezed out of engines could it involve tighter tolerances as well? Your thoughts?

bobistheoilguy.com

that thread has the same arguing as here and now it states
"Not open for further replies."

 

[silver billet]

that thread has the same arguing as here and now it states
"Not open for further replies."

It does have the same arguments, but the facts are nicely layed out in that thread. Unfortunately the mods are very quick to lock threads on bitog, that's not at all unique to this discussion.

 

[BowDown]

That's incorrect. These hemis use a postive displacement oil pump, the same volume of oil goes through regardless of viscosity. PSI increases a bit as a result, there is no reduction in oil flow or any other issue.

Wrong. Morel lifters has a specific warning for exactly that reason, heavy weight oil does not flow through the passages correctly. Its the same on MDS/VVT

 

[silver billet]

Wrong. Morel lifters has a specific warning for exactly that reason, heavy weight oil does not flow through the passages correctly. Its the same on MDS/VVT

You need to understand how a positive displacement oil pump works. There is no reduction in oil flow, just an increase in PSI.

 

[BowDown]

You need to understand how a positive displacement oil pump works. There is no reduction in oil flow, just an increase in PSI.

If that logic were true, we could use straight 50w right? Yeah, thought not

 

[silver billet]

If that logic were true, we could use straight 50w right? Yeah, thought not

At a certain point a limit will be reached and the system will go into bypass. That limit is not reached at xw-30 weights.

Pumps - Classifications

Centrifugal pumps vs. positive displacement pumps.

www.engineeringtoolbox.com

 

[BowDown]

FWIW, this is what I am running in my Ram. Owner of BND is a Mopar guy and owns a few Hemis, both old and new. This oil is custom blended for each customer. It's not some one size fits most blend with standard viscosity ratings. View attachment 159966View attachment 159967

Driven is really good too but these aren't easily available

Shop By Product - Street Performance Oils

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drivenracingoil.com

 

[HSKR R/T]

I literally said that the first time in post #50, nice try though.

You mean this post where you said the Hemi tick didn't come around until 2009?