5thGenRams Forums

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Blackstone oil analysis, high iron and copper only have 22k miles on engine

Wire4money

Active Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2022
Messages
77
Reaction score
46
The engine wasn't originally calling for 5w-30 before CAFE standards started pushing it down, and because according to the experts a HT/HS of 3.5 provides great protection beyond which is diminishing returns. You can however run 5w-40 or 0w-40 without any issues as well, I've run mobil 1 0w-40 last summer, it's a really great oil.

20w is too viscous for the temperatures I see.
I don’t know that the added protection is needed. I also don’t know if any changes were made when they made the change. I do know that VVT engines are very particular about the oil used. It would be interesting to do a study on engine failures with different grades of oil, but I’d wager 99%+ of the Ram owners are using the oil the manufacturer says to use.
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
I am far from an expert but I don't think viscosity equals quality.

Correct. It's only one aspect of it, there are friction modifiers, anti wear ingredients as well (additive pack) all sitting on top of a base oil.
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
you have a 2019 correct?
what degree do you have that as a 2022 owner I should run something different then the engineers say I should run?


this does not seem to back up your comment "That"s not BS"

Check out this thread for a good read:
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
I don’t know that the added protection is needed. I also don’t know if any changes were made when they made the change. I do know that VVT engines are very particular about the oil used. It would be interesting to do a study on engine failures with different grades of oil, but I’d wager 99%+ of the Ram owners are using the oil the manufacturer says to use.

The hemi is not at all fussy when it comes to oil viscosity and mds or vvt. Many of us have run Redline 5w-30 which is almost as thick as many 40 weight oils, and I have also run mobil 1 0w-40 which is a true 40 weight.

The 5.7 has the same clearances as the 6.4 which calls for 0w-40 in the manual.

99% of ram owners probably ARE using the manu speced oil. What does that tell you in combination with the high rate of lifter/cam failures? Because to me is suggests that I do everything in my power to give my truck the best oil I can find.

Oil specs are no longer just about durability or health of the engine, they are all about "how much further can we reduce the viscosity to gain a 0.1% improvement in MPG, and get away with it?"
 

HSKR R/T

locally hated
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
9,902
Reaction score
9,711
The hemi is not at all fussy when it comes to oil viscosity and mds or vvt. Many of us have run Redline 5w-30 which is almost as thick as many 40 weight oils, and I have also run mobil 1 0w-40 which is a true 40 weight.

The 5.7 has the same clearances as the 6.4 which calls for 0w-40 in the manual.

99% of ram owners probably ARE using the manu speced oil. What does that tell you in combination with the high rate of lifter/cam failures? Because to me is suggests that I do everything in my power to give my truck the best oil I can find.

Oil specs are no longer just about durability or health of the engine, they are all about "how much further can we reduce the viscosity to gain a 0.1% improvement in MPG, and get away with it?"
5.7 may have same "clearances" as the 6.4, but the 6.4 doesn't have MDS or VVT.
 

HSKR R/T

locally hated
Site Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
9,902
Reaction score
9,711
You even said you should run a quality oil, 5w-30 is definitely a higher quality oil. Why wouldn't you choose that over 0w-20 when there is no disadvantage to doing so?

Viscosity is not a measure of the quality of an oil
That's not accurate. There are many lifter failures in hemis that don't have MDS at all (challengers with the 6.4 manual), and MDS was present on hemis since like 2006, though hemi tick/lifter failure hasn't been an issue until the 2009 revision.

Where are you getting your information from? I've been around the Hemi powered cars/trucks since they were first available in 2004. There have definitely been reports of lifters failing all the way back then. And the LX cars had issue with the timing chain tensioners failing on the 05-07 models as well.

Shoot, the old 5.2/5.9l Magnum engines which used 10w-30 had issues with lifters.

This is also incorrect. See above, the hemi hasn't changed in that regard since 2005 and there are very specific years where the tick is worst: 2009 - 2014-ish. Clearly it's a parts/manufacturing defect issue, which you can mitigate by running high quality oils with high HT/HS, high anti wear ingredients (like moly), high detergents and solvents to keep everything clean, then changing oil frequently.
The tick has ALWAYS been around in the Hemis. You just hear about it more in the newer vehicles because there are more people online posting about their newer Hemis. The pre-eagle head Hemis(04-07) aren't that prevalent anymore in online groups.
 
U

User_3336

Guest
Agree, one of the reason I never put much stock in Blackstone results
Seems a bit over-rated. Lord knows they've probably made millions off RAM users analyzing their oil.
the average truck owner never even wonders or cares about the copper in their oil (for example).
Just change your oil at regular intervals.
 

kdoublep

Ram Guru
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
878
Reaction score
796
Location
USA
Platinum or PUP 5w20 with Lubegard every change and I made that choice based on information I read on this forum. Next one will be first time I use 5w30 and I am choosing to do that based on the information shared by others. I'm just about out of warranty. I'm at 55K with a relatively quiet Hemi. I have about 1.5 seconds of cold start slap and tha's it. Shes pretty quiet after that.

It is simply my opinion 5w30 in Florida Summers is worth a shot. Now that I'm just about out of warranty, I'm going to change it up and see if that 1.5 secs of slap disappears or gets quieter with the 5w30. I run my MDS less around town because I just hate it when those 4 cylinders drop out Im doing 35 and it feels like a slug. I always run it on the hwy. This is all personal preference. Never had an oil analysis done on anything. Don't want to lose sleep over a few parts per million. Everybody has their own OCD issues. I have enough already. Lol

As entertaining as the oil threads are, I still learned everything I based my decisions on through these threads and debates. I don't debate with anyone on oil about their conclusions or opinions because I'm not an expert by any means. I do know that I would be lost without this site and you all have saved me a lot of headaches and heartaches. Thank you and party on!
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
Viscosity is not a measure of the quality of an oil
It's a part of it yes. Higher viscosity = higher MOFT.

Where are you getting your information from? I've been around the Hemi powered cars/trucks since they were first available in 2004. There have definitely been reports of lifters failing all the way back then. And the LX cars had issue with the timing chain tensioners failing on the 05-07 models as well.

Shoot, the old 5.2/5.9l Magnum engines which used 10w-30 had issues with lifters.


The tick has ALWAYS been around in the Hemis. You just hear about it more in the newer vehicles because there are more people online posting about their newer Hemis. The pre-eagle head Hemis(04-07) aren't that prevalent anymore in online groups.

Hemi tick as a thing only came out around 2009. Pre eagle heads were susceptible to floating valves. No doubt you can find small cases where lifters failed pre 2009 as well, but it was never an "epidemic" like it is on certain years (2009 to 2014-ish are the worst). This comes straight from the mouths of certificed FCA mechanics who fix these things. You can find one on YT if you wish, look for Reignited.
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
Seems a bit over-rated. Lord knows they've probably made millions off RAM users analyzing their oil.
the average truck owner never even wonders or cares about the copper in their oil (for example).
Just change your oil at regular intervals.

The average owner can barely be bothered to wash it or change their oil on time.

I don't live in fear of getting hemi tick, but the UOA reports are a good resource when read and uderstood correctly. And the nerdy side of me loves that sort of thing just out of interest.
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
Just to clarify my opinion before I get jumped on again; I don't have a problem with 0w vs 5w, I choose 0w in the winter and 5w in the summer. However, it will be either "0w-30" or "5w-30", or "0w-40"; never "0w-20" or "5w-20".
 

Snekpete

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
483
Reaction score
1,511
Location
Maryland
It is my understanding that 0W is zero weight oil with modifiers added to keep its viscosity the same (as the higher number base oil) at operating temperature.

Thus 0w-10 and 0w-20 have the same zero weight base oil, with the 20 having more modifiers.

I would prefer to have the oil that has more oil, less modifiers.
 

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
It is my understanding that 0W is zero weight oil with modifiers added to keep its viscosity the same (as the higher number base oil) at operating temperature.

Thus 0w-10 and 0w-20 have the same zero weight base oil, with the 20 having more modifiers.

I would prefer to have the oil that has more oil, less modifiers.

It's not quite that simple, generally the wider the range the more vii (viscosity index improvers) yes, but HPL for example has a "no vii" line up which has as the name suggests absolutely no vii's whatsoever and that comes in a 5w-30 if you wish. Also Ester and PAO base oils need less of this just due to their makeup.

I generally focus on the complete package of the oil, but I personally won't budge on viscosity just due to my earlier comments (it costs nothing extra to use it and it has no downsides and offers more protection due to higher HT/HS). After that the rest of the oil has to be evaluated as a complete formula, not just picking out one or two ingredients or aspects; this is a whole science and I simply don't have the training to do that. An oil like HPL which is formulated as a "no holds barred, it costs what it costs" formula generally is going to perform better than an off the shelf oil which has other other constraints (cost) and targets, so I'd definitely run HPL 0/5w-20 over Quaker State 0/5w-30 (for example). But if I'm picking HPL anyway, I'm going for the 0/5w-30.

Edit: also this is a good use of Blackstone labs UOA as they will tell you how much the oil sheared down. Redline 5w-30 is very stout, it's highly recommened on another forum and many UOA reports showing very little shear.
 
Last edited:
U

User_3336

Guest
Edit: also this is a good use of Blackstone labs UOA as they will tell you how much the oil sheared down. Redline 5w-30 is very stout, it's highly recommened on another forum and many UOA reports showing very little shear.
Why wants to give $60 for a "gallon" of Redline? F*** that. Its only 4 quarts as well.
 

Snekpete

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2021
Messages
483
Reaction score
1,511
Location
Maryland
It's not quite that simple, generally the wider the range the more vii (viscosity index improvers) yes, but HPL for example has a "no vii" line up which has as the name suggests absolutely no vii's whatsoever and that comes in a 5w-30 if you wish. Also Ester and PAO base oils need less of this just due to their makeup.
That is not true and it is just that simple.

0w oil is zero weight oil. 10w oil is ten weight oil.

There are two manufacturers under HPL:

1) Why HPL | United States | HPL Superior Lubricants
2) Premium Plus Passenger Car Engine Oil | High Performance Lubricants

Both of them contain viscosity improvers.

1) What is oil viscosity? Edit, this link doesn't get you there. Go to HPL Oil - Superior Lubricants Made in the USA, located in Hebron, IN select the NEWS drop down, go to the bottom of the page and select FAQ, then select What is oil viscosity.


The viscosity index (VI) is a standard method of measuring a fluid's viscosity change in relation to temperature. The higher the VI, the smaller the relative change in viscosity vs. temperature.
SAE viscosity is the measurement of oil flow at set temperatures. Oil flow is measured at -22°F and 212°F in order to determine a flow range. Using SAE 5W30 oil for example, the first number (5) is measured at -22°F (cold) while the second number (30) is measured at 212°F (hot). By using viscosity improver’s oil can be engineered to get thicker (higher VI) as oil temperature increases.
VI improvers (or viscosity modifiers) are polymeric molecules that are sensitive to temperature, they actually expand as temperature increases, this minimizes how much the oil thins with heat. At low temperatures, these molecule chain contracts and do not affect the oil viscosity. This is what allows oil to be thinner when cold and become thicker as it heats up.

2) High Performance Lubricants’ Premium Plus passenger car engine oil is a multi-synthetic high performance motor oil made with the best choices of additive chemistry. When compared with our other PCMO product lines this series takes advantage of high quality PAO delivering superb pour points as well as an advanced VI Improver that has superior shear stability index. It is designed for equipment, environment, or service that is particularly harsh. Oils formulated with specifically chosen esters can help to minimize intake valve deposits, maintain clean engines and provide elastomer compatibility. The correct detergent selection combined with base stocks that have low volatility will combat low speed pre-ignition (LPSI) making it a perfect oil for gasoline direct injected (GDI) engines and small displacement turbocharged gasoline engines. HPL PCMO Premium Plus is also formulated with extra anti-wear and antioxidant additives to minimize wear while offering an extended oil life compared to other motor oils. Additionally, HPL PCMO Premium Plus contains premium viscosity index improvers (VII) to minimize shear, further extending the life of the oil. This technology has been proven on the race tracks around the nation. Our Bad *** Racing oils have common additive strategy when compared to this PCMO Premium Plus formulation and have been extremely successful winning multiple championships in many forms of professional motor-sports. These oils are not something you will find on the shelf of a discount retailer. If you are a person looking for a product that will outperform traditional mineral and synthetic oils our products will be a perfect fit for you.

BTW, these viscosity improvers and other additives are proprietary and may be incompatible between brands, which is why the mixing of different brands of motor oil is not recommended.
 
Last edited:

silver billet

Spends too much time on here
Joined
Apr 18, 2019
Messages
2,447
Reaction score
2,370
That is not true and it is just that simple.
It is true, and no it isn't that simple.

0w oil is zero weight oil. 10w oil is ten weight oil.

There are two manufacturers under HPL:

1) Why HPL | United States | HPL Superior Lubricants
2) Premium Plus Passenger Car Engine Oil | High Performance Lubricants

Both of them contain viscosity improvers.

You can find the "no vii" lineup at the bottom of this page. Their other formulas do contains vii's.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top