Bilstein 5100 vs spacer level

[Makeitrain]

That's correct the Rebel's come with Bilstein 4600's which are very similar to the 5100's same tube size. Main difference is the height adjustment on the 5100's and zinc coating vs. painted (blue/yellow). So my ride did not change at all, defiantly did not get stiffer or rougher. I don't do off road, but I do a lot of towing on both pavement and gravel so I really wanted something close or better to stock ride without breaking the bank and level my rake. I am very happy with the 5100's and well worth the money for me. You can check out waterfowler41 youtube channel he explains the 5100's pretty well.

 

[RebelWraith]

So what did you not like about the 5100s and the 6100’s vs what you have now?


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They were too stiff on road and were only slightly better off-road than stock Rebel suspension. The best way to explain it is you are taking a spring and compressing it to give you more height. The problem is this limits travel and stiffens the spring. It's just physics. No way of getting around it.

Coilovers use a spring tuned for weight and length of the specific vehicles suspension. FOX's DSC adds in adjustments for high speed and low speed compression. This gives you the ability to fine tune how you feel road variations. So, you can set them for on road or off-road or a happy medium with just a click of the adjusters.

It was a learning experience going through the Bilstein options and helps me to provide the best information for my clients. I've installed a good amount of Bilsteins and the only complaint has always been that they stiffen up the ride. But, most people only use them on pavement and never see dirt. That's when I wished they would have shown me the light. But, they honestly did not. This is all just my opinion so please take it as just that.

 

[puba08]

What size tires are you running? And was there any rubbing or trimming that had to be done

275/65R20 (basically 34/11). No cutting, rubbing, bending or trimming. Did that all on my 4th Gen to run 35/12.5’s. Didn’t want to do that this time. I don’t see how you can go wider on the stock rim as I m pretty close to my UCA’s.


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[SurfRebel20]

compressing the spring doesn't change stiffness on aftermarket springs. the springs that come with the 6112's, fox, and king are all linear springs which means the stiffness remains the same through compression.

 

[RebelWraith]

compressing the spring doesn't change stiffness on aftermarket springs. the springs that come with the 6112's, fox, and king are all linear springs which means the stiffness remains the same through compression.

The comments about linear rate springs isn't completely accurate.

Linear rate springs have one defined spring rate per inch of deflection throughout most of their range of deflection. For instance, if we have a 300lb/in linear rate spring that is 12 inches long, it will take approximately 300lb to deflect it 1 inch. The next inch of deflection will take another 300lb of load and the next inch of deflection will take an additional 300# of load (and so on until the spring goes solid). At this point there will be 900lb of load on a 12 inch long spring that has now been compressed to a 9” spring height.

 

[SurfRebel20]

im aware, you mentioned using the 6112s though and said they were too stiff. you're not going to get a softer ride switching out factory suspension. fox coilovers actually have 100lb more spring ratio than factory which most people say stiffens the ride. aftermarket coilovers are for offroading and racing which is why most if not all will stiffen on road ride. also most people are adding E or F rated tires when switching suspension which also increases ride stiffness.

 

[RebelWraith]

im aware, you mentioned using the 6112s though and said they were too stiff. you're not going to get a softer ride switching out factory suspension. fox coilovers actually have 100lb more spring ratio than factory which most people say stiffens the ride. aftermarket coilovers are for offroading and racing which is why most if not all will stiffen on road ride. also most people are adding E or F rated tires when switching suspension which also increases ride stiffness.

Yes, in the case of 6100s and non adjustable coilovers you are correct which is why I don't understand how people say that they felt no change. There would be a noticeable change.

Coilovers with compression adjustments will be able to be dialed in as soft as stock if that is wanted.

Tires are a whole different other issue.

 

[H2OMAN]

Also after a quick search it looks like the Rebel comes with bilstein shocks stock. What are those that are on there?


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They are the 4600's. You cannot level with them. You'll need a puck to level.

 

[Makeitrain]

I think som e on this forum is relying on older models of Bilsteins 5100 effecting the ride comfort, which did happen. I can tell you first hand I have them on my 2020 Rebel and the ride comfort has not changed from the factory 4600's. But too each their own. These 5100's are not from 2012....

 

[RebelWraith]

I think som e on this forum is relying on older models of Bilsteins 5100 effecting the ride comfort, which did happen. I can tell you first hand I have them on my 2020 Rebel and the ride comfort has not changed from the factory 4600's. But too each their own. These 5100's are not from 2012....

No, we are referring to 5100s on a 2019+ DT Ram. We are after all on a 5th gen ram forum.

 

[Makeitrain]

Thank you Captain Obvious.

 

[RebelWraith]

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Just trying to help out the less fortunate.

 

[RamRebelSteel]

Do you have air ride? Different ballgame if you do. If you don’t, Go with either the 5100’s or the Eibachs. Much better ride than spacers. Just remember a Rebel is 1” taller than stock, so setting an adjustable shock at 2.1” or 1.8” will essentially give you 3” of lift.
You don’t need to touch the rear. New UCA’s are not really needed, but isn’t a bad idea.


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That's not really how it works. The rebel is taller by 1" via OEM bilstein shock and springs. To put it simple, if you switch those out for a shock/coilover system that advertised for a ram 1500(not rebel) its going to give you 1" less of lift than advertised. A reputable company won't sell you a 3" lift(which would make it a 4 on a rebel) for you to mess up the suspension geometry and bust a cv axle.

 

[DenCoRam]

That's not really how it works. The rebel is taller by 1" via OEM bilstein shock and springs. To put it simple, if you switch those out for a shock/coilover system that advertised for a ram 1500(not rebel) its going to give you 1" less of lift than advertised. A reputable company won't sell you a 3" lift(which would make it a 4 on a rebel) for you to mess up the suspension geometry and bust a cv axle.

It depends on what you choose to install. Something like the 5100's where you're reusing the stock spring, you get roughly the same amount of lift (from your current height) per ring location as you do for non ORP/Rebel. This means you do get 3" total lift if you set it for 2" lift on the Rebel. If you are completely swapping out the coil over, then it would work roughly as you describe. Bilstein puts out good charts that show how much lift you get from current height for non-lifted and lifted (ORP/Rebel) trucks from the factory.

 

[SurfRebel20]

the rebel is 1in higher, im pretty sure almost half of that is from the factory 33s. and another 0.6 inches is from the suspension. if the rebel suspension alone added 1 inch then a rebel would sit higher than 1in because the 33s add height as well. could be wrong but I think thats how it is.

 

[RamRebelSteel]

the rebel is 1in higher, im pretty sure almost half of that is from the factory 33s. and another 0.6 inches is from the suspension. if the rebel suspension alone added 1 inch then a rebel would sit higher than 1in because the 33s add height as well. could be wrong but I think thats how it is.

They claim its 1" taller from center of hub to bottom of fender from what Filthy Motorsports explained to me. They sold me my king shocks and told me not to pass a 24" measurement to keep the geometry within tolerance from stress and all that bad stuff. Suspension is kind of a lot to take in lol.

 

[puba08]

The springs on the Rebel and ORG are what nets the additional 1” lift. You set Bils or eibachs as close to 2” as you can and that’s how you get to 3”.


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[H2OMAN]

I though this may be of interest. It's from Fox.
https://store.mopar.com/accessories...nce-lift_kits/2_inch_lift_kit_77072424AC.html

 

[Boost Monkey]

The Bilsteins will stiffen up your ride depending on which adjustment you go with as you are preloading the spring the further you go up the shock body.

Aren't the Rebel's OEM springs linear?

If our OEM springs are linear (which most springs are nowadays), then compressing the spring in order to raise the ride height has zero effect on the spring rate. The ride will not be any stiffer than it was with the previous setting when the cup was lower.

The whole notion of creating or eliminating spring preload and the subsequent effects on the spring rate when compressing or relaxing a linear rate spring to adjust ride height is a super common misunderstanding that never dies on car forums. The only way you will effect the spring rate of a linear spring is if at the static state (no dynamic load present, just static weight from the sprung mass or weight of vehicle) the spring is compressed so much that you start binding the coils at each end. Then you will feel a much stiffer ride as the spring bottoms out during compression. With linear rate springs, it's best to think that there is no such thing as spring preload.

Progressive rate springs, though... totally different story.

 

[RebelWraith]

Aren't the Rebel's OEM springs linear?

If our OEM springs are linear (which most springs are nowadays), then compressing the spring in order to raise the ride height has zero effect on the spring rate. The ride will not be any stiffer than it was with the previous setting when the cup was lower.

The whole notion of creating or eliminating spring preload and the subsequent effects on the spring rate when compressing or relaxing a linear rate spring to adjust ride height is a super common misunderstanding that never dies on car forums. The only way you will effect the spring rate of a linear spring is if at the static state (no dynamic load present, just static weight from the sprung mass or weight of vehicle) the spring is compressed so much that you start binding the coils at each end. Then you will feel a much stiffer ride as the spring bottoms out during compression. With linear rate springs, it's best to think that there is no such thing as spring preload.

Progressive rate springs, though... totally different story.

No, last I checked the Ram 1500 springs are progressive.