Bad midrange speakers? Upgrade?

[RedRaider91]

Hey guys, first I’m sorry if this is in the wrong spot, but I haven’t come across a thread yet about what I’m experiencing specifically.

I have a 2020 with the HK and while the system is loud, with good base and good highs, my in-door speakers are awful. And I don’t mean awful sounding…they produce almost no sound at all. The upper door tweeter is decent but still pretty terrible, but the lower door midrange makes almost no sound. Almost like it receives no power at all. The lower door midrange specifically, is basically useless.

My question is if I do an upgraded speaker (lower door) WITHOUT adding an amp, do y’all think I’d see a noticeable difference? Is this a speaker issue or amp (power) issue? I’m satisfied with the rest of the system, although there is room for improvement, the midrange problem needs to be addressed.

Thanks for the help.
Ethan

 

[Brunzca]

Hey guys, first I’m sorry if this is in the wrong spot, but I haven’t come across a thread yet about what I’m experiencing specifically.

I have a 2020 with the HK and while the system is loud, with good base and good highs, my in-door speakers are awful. And I don’t mean awful sounding…they produce almost no sound at all. The upper door tweeter is decent but still pretty terrible, but the lower door midrange makes almost no sound. Almost like it receives no power at all. The lower door midrange specifically, is basically useless.

My question is if I do an upgraded speaker (lower door) WITHOUT adding an amp, do y’all think I’d see a noticeable difference? Is this a speaker issue or amp (power) issue? I’m satisfied with the rest of the system, although there is room for improvement, the midrange problem needs to be addressed.

Thanks for the help.
Ethan

The stock speakers suck. But, keep in mind that the lower door speakers are tuned for midbass only in the HK system. So, you won’t get much/any midrange sound from them, only midbass, all the midrange comes from the dash speakers,

 

[Scap]

CDT CL-69s

 

[RedRaider91]

The stock speakers suck. But, keep in mind that the lower door speakers are tuned for midbass only in the HK system. So, you won’t get much/any midrange sound from them, only midbass, all the midrange comes from the dash speakers,

So would replacing them with some 2 way 6.5 speakers be a nice upgrade to the overall sound?

Also, Scab I have no idea what your post means? Are those nuclear codes by chance?

 

[Scap]

So would replacing them with some 2 way 6.5 speakers be a nice upgrade to the overall sound?

Also, Scab I have no idea what your post means? Are those nuclear codes by chance?

That's the speaker I used in my doors. Awesome upgrade.

 

[Ickabod]

I replaced my door speakers with these Kicker ones. Best upgrade I made!

 

[RedRaider91]

That's the speaker I used in my doors. Awesome upgrade.

Oh okay I got ya. I looked those up and they look great. Thanks for the suggestion.

And I’ll have to look into the kickers as well.

So the consensus is swapping out the lower midrange speaker to a better one is a great upgrade? Thanks everyone!

 

[RedRaider91]

One final question, since most speaker options are a 2 way (woofer with built in tweeter) that’s most likely the route I’ll go. But I’m wondering if I’ll lose a lot of that lower bass sound since the original door speaker is a midrange bass. For those that did change to a 2 way, did you notice a drop in low bass sound from the new ones?

 

[GMetal]

One final question, since most speaker options are a 2 way (woofer with built in tweeter) that’s most likely the route I’ll go. But I’m wondering if I’ll lose a lot of that lower bass sound since the original door speaker is a midrange bass. For those that did change to a 2 way, did you notice a drop in low bass sound from the new ones?

The tweeters on the 2 ways for the doors would be worthless since the amplifier does not send any frequencies that the tweeters output.

 

[Brunzca]

So would replacing them with some 2 way 6.5 speakers be a nice upgrade to the overall sound?

Also, Scab I have no idea what your post means? Are those nuclear codes by chance?

regardless of what you put in the door, unless you bypass the factory amp, only lows are going to go to those speakers (mid bass). A decent 6x9 or 6.5 would be fine. I currently have those CDTs, but strongly considering changing to 6.5s

 

[RedRaider91]

Okay that’s great information because I didn’t know that about the tweeter not being usable. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[TxRN]

anyone know the amount of watts the stock HK amp puts on per channel? I ask because most aftermarket speakers require at least 100watts RMS to work to its fullest range... Am I missing something here, because I noticed on the forum guys are just changing to aftermarket speakers and it stating "sounding better" and "works great"... ???

 

[Brunzca]

anyone know the amount of watts the stock HK amp puts on per channel? I ask because most aftermarket speakers require at least 100watts RMS to work to its fullest range... Am I missing something here, because I noticed on the forum guys are just changing to aftermarket speakers and it stating "sounding better" and "works great"... ???

I’m not sure of the wattage, but it’s not much. I wouldn’t get anything with RMS of 150-200, and expect it to sound good. The infinity (3032, I think) is a popular choice for lots of people here, and it plays fine with the Stock amp, I think max RMS for that is like 75. If I had to guess, it’s <50 per channel

 

[23RAM]

@RedRaider91 There's probably nothing wrong with the stock speakers and amp (the various speakers have specific output ranges as mentioned so only lows from the doors and highs from the other speakers)...you likely just need to adjust the EQ a bit. I have the Alpine system and while pretty good, it's not great with the stock settings. The system is tuned bass-heavy and dull because that's what the kids like whether it's accurate or not, and I had to cut the bass -2, mid 0, treble +2. This improved the overall sound a lot and cleaned up the mid-bass and let the sub thump cleaner. As for power, the Alpine system has a 500w amp with about 50w to the door speakers, 20w to the mid/highs, and 90w to the sub, and that's plenty for decent volume. Don't be fooled by RMS power ratings - low end amps are rated much higher than they can output which is why good systems cost more - you get what you're paid for here. Perceived volume is a logarithmic scale too, so the difference between 50w and 100w is only a slight increase in perceived volume (3dB) most people can barely notice that difference. You don't need more power unless you're trying to impress your friends with ear bleeding volumes at competitions. Unless you actually have a defective speaker, your system probably just needs a little tweak.

 

[RedRaider91]

@RedRaider91 There's probably nothing wrong with the stock speakers and amp (the various speakers have specific output ranges as mentioned so only lows from the doors and highs from the other speakers)...you likely just need to adjust the EQ a bit. I have the Alpine system and while pretty good, it's not great with the stock settings. The system is tuned bass-heavy and dull because that's what the kids like whether it's accurate or not, and I had to cut the bass -2, mid 0, treble +2. This improved the overall sound a lot and cleaned up the mid-bass and let the sub thump cleaner. As for power, the Alpine system has a 500w amp with about 50w to the door speakers, 20w to the mid/highs, and 90w to the sub, and that's plenty for decent volume. Don't be fooled by RMS power ratings - low end amps are rated much higher than they can output which is why good systems cost more - you get what you're paid for here. Perceived volume is a logarithmic scale too, so the difference between 50w and 100w is only a slight increase in perceived volume (3dB) most people can barely notice that difference. You don't need more power unless you're trying to impress your friends with ear bleeding volumes at competitions. Unless you actually have a defective speaker, your system probably just needs a little tweak.

I completely understand what you mean. However I have played around a lot with the EQ so I know I can rule that out. I also wish the factory EQ settings were better in terms of being more adjustable.

Now to add another layer to this…I’m going down the rabbit hole of now thinking of swapping out both lower doors, and the 3 dash speakers. Are the factory HK dash speakers full range? Other than being 3.5” what are the specs on them?

Appreciate this fellas

 

[RedRaider91]

So here’s what I’m thinking…

Kicker 6.5” in lower door (DS series 60 watt RMS)

Kicker 3.5” in dash (CS series 30 watt RMS)

Would these be good choices considering I’m NOT adding an amp? Will the stock system power these fine or do I need to move up or down in RMS?

And I’m still unsure of what range of speaker the dash speakers are. Is a 3.5” 2 way the right choice?

 

[GMetal]

yes a 2 way is fine for the dash as long as it fits. The dash speakers are midrange and tweeter frequencies. Audio Frog makes some nice speakers that should fit. The cone area on the 6.5 for the door is smaller than the 6x9. Personally I like the CDT 6x9 for the door. If you choose 6.5 you will need an adapter plate. Another thing to consider is the ohms of the speaker. Im not sure what class the amplifiers are and whether the ohms will change the output wattage. An AB-class amplifier typically produces more wattage at lower resistance (lower ohm) Say it produces 40 watts with a 4 ohms speaker and 80 watts at 2 ohms but can see clipping and increased Total Harmonic Distortion at the higher wattage/lower ohm rating. The amplifiers in the trucks I believe are rated for 2 ohm speakers. Putting a 4 ohm speaker in its place could reduce the output of the amplifier. Its best to replace speakers with the same ohm rating on a factory amplifier. There are some older threads on here digging into those aspects you should read.

 

[ShortStack]

Ask the guys at Crutchfield.com They know everything about anything audio. Have worked with them a lot over the years with no issues.

Just a suggestion.

 

[RedRaider91]

yes a 2 way is fine for the dash as long as it fits. The dash speakers are midrange and tweeter frequencies. Audio Frog makes some nice speakers that should fit. The cone area on the 6.5 for the door is smaller than the 6x9. Personally I like the CDT 6x9 for the door. If you choose 6.5 you will need an adapter plate. Another thing to consider is the ohms of the speaker. Im not sure what class the amplifiers are and whether the ohms will change the output wattage. An AB-class amplifier typically produces more wattage at lower resistance (lower ohm) Say it produces 40 watts with a 4 ohms speaker and 80 watts at 2 ohms but can see clipping and increased Total Harmonic Distortion at the higher wattage/lower ohm rating. The amplifiers in the trucks I believe are rated for 2 ohm speakers. Putting a 4 ohm speaker in its place could reduce the output of the amplifier. Its best to replace speakers with the same ohm rating on a factory amplifier. There are some older threads on here digging into those aspects you should read.

I believe you are correct about the factory speakers being 2 ohm. However there are essentially no aftermarket speakers that are 2 ohm. Almost everything (@crutchfield) is 4 ohms. I also wasn’t aware that the difference in ohms would affect the amp. I thought it would only affect the speakers output.

I’ll reach out to crutchfield and see what they say or recommend

 

[RedRaider91]

Okay had a good conversation with the guys at Crutchfield and I learned that those of us with the HK system, almost all speakers in the truck run at 4-4.5 ohms. Also, crutchfield said they believe the door speaker’s specifically would only receive about 30 watts rms.

For those with the Alpine system, most of those speakers are 2 ohm for what it’s worth.