About to pull the trigger on a Travel Trailer - need some of your inputs to confirm my understanding....

[NRitland2]

That's a 27 foot 4 inch Aspen Trail 2340Bhswe. It runs 5500 dry. I'm right at 6700 lbs loaded and 800 loaded tongue weight. I have a 3.21 rear end 1300 payload and 8K total. It does great. I would prefer a 3.92 rear end having had one, but this does just fine as the tranny compensates fine for the rear end. I am at what I consider the upper end of it's "comfortable" limits.

WDH?

 

[AngelPhoenix]

That's a 27 foot 4 inch Aspen Trail 2340Bhswe. It runs 5500 dry. I'm right at 6700 lbs loaded and 800 loaded tongue weight. I have a 3.21 rear end 1300 payload and 8K total. It does great. I would prefer a 3.92 rear end having had one, but this does just fine as the tranny compensates fine for the rear end. I am at what I consider the upper end of it's "comfortable" limits.

Thank you!

Those are right around the numbers I'm looking to hit (my fat @$$ Limited has me down at 1268 ). Maybe a little lighter loaded (like 6200-6500).

Do you think an extra 2 feet would make much of a difference as far as visibility and sway? One of my favorite trailers that I've looked at is 29 feet (Apex Ultra-Lite 251RBK).

I'm pretty sure like most things I am overthinking my trailer selection but I feel like if there's anything vehicle-related that's actually good to overthink, trailering is it. Thanks again! Nice set up!

 

[NRitland2]

Thank you!

Those are right around the numbers I'm looking to hit (my fat @$$ Limited has me down at 1268 ). Maybe a little lighter loaded (like 6200-6500).

Do you think an extra 2 feet would make much of a difference as far as visibility and sway? One of my favorite trailers that I've looked at is 29 feet (Apex Ultra-Lite 251RBK).

I'm pretty sure like most things I am overthinking my trailer selection but I feel like if there's anything vehicle-related that's actually good to overthink, trailering is it. Thanks again! Nice set up!

Your 3.92 will help. I would get a WDH if its a 29’. We picked up a keystone bullet 250bhs and just got a bighorn with 1401.

I am the same way. Overthink everything. Do your research and trust your decisions

 

[Redfour5]

Thank you!

Those are right around the numbers I'm looking to hit (my fat @$$ Limited has me down at 1268 ). Maybe a little lighter loaded (like 6200-6500).

Do you think an extra 2 feet would make much of a difference as far as visibility and sway? One of my favorite trailers that I've looked at is 29 feet (Apex Ultra-Lite 251RBK).

I'm pretty sure like most things I am overthinking my trailer selection but I feel like if there's anything vehicle-related that's actually good to overthink, trailering is it. Thanks again! Nice set up!

Having been researching trailers for years, I like shorter better while still checking my boxes. Length does make a difference imho. It seems that having "lounge chairs" in a slide is what makes the difference. If you can live without that, and go only with a dinette, you can do it under 28 feet, get lounge chairs and you are at 29 feet minimum to 30 plus. Bunks are my main requirement and separate bedroom with door. IF I didn't need bunks, this would be my favorite floorplan of all time... https://www.dutchmen.com/product/aspen-trail at under 27 feet. Aspen Trail 2260RBS The TV/fireplace sits directly in front of the dinette and with one of those comfort pillows behind you you don't need a "lounge chair." And storage out the wazoo, big kitchen storage behind the fireplace) AND the axles, big bathroom... walkaround bed... Nice floorplan, short length.And as inexpensive as 29K up to 43K depending upon where you buy (Check out a RVtrader for national pricing by model). I cannot believe the pricing now days. I got mine for 23,600 in Feb of this year 2021. The cheapest one out there now of mine is 30K new, 28K used. Amazing... Identical travel trailer.

 

[Dragonmaster13]

I’m towing 33’ on my Dutchmen 268bhs at 7600lbs. Zero sway with my blue ox pro. The key is dialing in the hitch for proper weight distribution. Most don’t put enough weight back to their front axle leading to understeer and an overloaded rear axle, very dangerous. What many describe as sway is actually the front end floating around. Scale with just hitch, no trailer, hookup and rescale to ensure you’ve returned your front axle to at least 80%, if not 100% or more of unhitched weight.

 

[IvoryHemi]

One of my favorite trailers that I've looked at is 29 feet (Apex Ultra-Lite 251RBK)

Our first TT was an Apex Ultra-Light 288BHS. It towed very well.

 

[Gazza]

We actually starting the trailer hunt before covid started, it put us on hold, but now we're back in the game!

Our goal is seasonal, where we might have to pull it one or twice a year at most, and those would be short (within 200 KMs / 120 miles at most)
On towing days (if any) it would be 1-2 people max, with limited gear or anything in the truck

I've attached the truck labels, and this is the trailer we have our eyes on

SportTrek ST291VRK Travel Trailer | Venture RV

View the SportTrek ST291VRK lightweight travel trailer floorplan, specifications, 360 virtual tour, quick tour video and photos.

www.venture-rv.com

Also the only thing I don't have is the WDH (yet) and the trailer! Before I go write a big cheque, I want to confirm with some of you guys!

I have a SportTrek 251 VRK and I tow with a Ram 1500 limited - the issue is the tongue weight - using a tongue weight scale I am around 900 lbs without water. it’s is near impossible to get it within the Payload (1293 lbs) My tongue weight is around 13% on the overall trailer weight. You have allot more payload but Don’t under estimate the true weight of the tongue

 

[AngelPhoenix]

I have a SportTrek 251 VRK and I tow with a Ram 1500 limited - the issue is the tongue weight - using a tongue weight scale I am around 900 lbs without water. it’s is near impossible to get it within the Payload (1293 lbs) My tongue weight is around 13% on the overall trailer weight. You have allot more payload but Don’t under estimate the true weight of the tongue

High dry hitch weight on that one (720lbs). Personally trying to narrow my search to trailers with dry hitch weights under 600lbs. My payload is about the same as yours (1268).

 

[NRitland2]

High dry hitch weight on that one (720lbs). Personally trying to narrow my search to trailers with dry hitch weights under 600lbs. My payload is about the same as yours (1268).

Take a look at the keystone bullett line... We just got a 2021 covid turn in. 600 hitch and 5600 dry

 

[Redfour5]

High dry hitch weight on that one (720lbs). Personally trying to narrow my search to trailers with dry hitch weights under 600lbs. My payload is about the same as yours (1268).

I'm in the same boat you all are with right at 1300 payload and 8,000 lbs total due to things like the Ramboxes, barn door tailgate. I've found to maintain about a thousand total weigh cushion, with trucks in this range, is that around 5500 dry weight and 600 dry hitch weight is your limit also. IF you have two group 24 batts on it and two 30 gallon propane tanks full, you add allmost exactly 200 lbs to the 600 lb dry hitch weight. Then tack on around 80 lbs for your weight distribution hitch. AND then you only got like 400 lbs payload left. Use it carefully. Two people and dogs and you are pretty much done. We don't put anything in the back except empty crates for the things we might buy on a trip and a cooler.

An IMPORTANT piece of information many people do NOT know is that payload is figured with FULL fluids in the truck INCLUDING GAS. So, you do NOT need to worry about your gas as a payload factor except knowing 30 miles down the road with a trailer and you just dropped 25 lbs of weight (approx 8 lbs per gallon). So, you can do the math and realize that except after a fill up you are dropping about 8 lbs per 10 miles towing.

Frankly, I don't like 30 lb propane tanks. It's so easy to grab 20 pounders everywhere and if you go with two 20's, you can pick up around 45 to 50 lbs. Same with a battery. Having one is another 45 lbs. So, by dropping a batt and going with smaller propane tanks can pick up in the range of 100 lbs. Now this may be a problem for those week long dry campers, but for most people it will work as you will likely have a genset of some sort. Further, my gray and black tanks and water sit over the axles or behind them. That impacts tongue weight to your benefit IF your trailer is designed that way. So, look for that in your design. But so does what you put in front storage. In the end about a wash. You can put one of those flip up hitch carriers on the back and put your genset on there also, or bikes etc. But watchem close.

So, I sort of look at it as a gestalt, looking at all the factors. I did have aftermarket airbags on my 2015, but the 2021 is actually better and so far the new set of airbags has not been installed. Yes, I know they do NOTHING for payload etc., but they can make some trucks feel better on the tow.

So, I'm driving down the road and looking at the dynamic of the towing experience including gas weight, WDH experience, and everything, I'm probably slightly over when I fill up the tank and slightly below 70 miles down the road. I watch closely ALL the factors and do my best to stay within limits but I know it is NOT a static event.

In reality, and realistically, a 500 lb tongue weight on the trailer would be best, but good luck finding a 5500 lb (dry), 6700 wet travel trailer with that. AND so, adjust your trailer WANTS carefully. The key factor often on a travel trailer is a slideout. For example, with a husband wife and two kids, on a relatively tricked out truck and a 1300ish payload, you are pretty much at payload when you take off with two batts and two 30 lb propane tanks. Keep the dynamic in mind. BUT, if you get, for example, a 27 or 28 foot bunkhouse WITHOUT a slide, there are some 5200 to 5500 lb travel trailers (bunkhouse) that do have a 500lb tongue weight. IF you want a door on your bedroom, add a couple of feet to length. Put a slide on and you are going to be at 600 dry tongue weight, get over it. I research assiduously as a retired guy and find it a general rule of thumb. I've been towing since 2004 starting with a Subaru Forester and a pop up moving to a smaller bunkhouse and now my Aspen Trail 2340 BHS that checks her boxes but pushes my envelope...

IF, you are that younger family want "full size bed" bunks (the 28/30 inchers get old real fast) and don't mind having the main bedroom area open, you can easily do a 25 footer (bunkhouse) without a slide all day with a 1300 ish payload and 8K total weight. AND 25 foot will get you into a lot of campsites a longer one won't. 25 feet is a sweet spot for amenities and campsite access. It checks all the boxes for families (twoish kids). There are some nice units out there in this range. We have a dinette/pantry slideout because we are old and got tired of watching the dog back down the hallway...

Or get a slide full big tanks and batts...and then you go back to the things I noted earlier in the post if you want to pick up some lbs. OR...get fewer bells and whistles on the truck and pick up some payload from the gitgo. To be honest, the longer Gen5 and a quad cab will pick up a couple hundred lbs quick and now days the quad cabs and tweeners to College age is not a real problem..

 

[IvoryHemi]

Frankly, I don't like 30 lb propane tanks. It's so easy to grab 20 pounders everywhere and if you go with two 20's, you can pick up around 45 to 50 lbs.

There is only a ~36 lbs difference full

20 lb tank = 37 lbs
30 lb tank = 55 lbs

 

[AngelPhoenix]

I'm in the same boat you all are with right at 1300 payload and 8,000 lbs total due to things like the Ramboxes, barn door tailgate. I've found to maintain about a thousand total weigh cushion, with trucks in this range, is that around 5500 dry weight and 600 dry hitch weight is your limit also. IF you have two group 24 batts on it and two 30 gallon propane tanks full, you add allmost exactly 200 lbs to the 600 lb dry hitch weight. Then tack on around 80 lbs for your weight distribution hitch. AND then you only got like 400 lbs payload left. Use it carefully. Two people and dogs and you are pretty much done. We don't put anything in the back except empty crates for the things we might buy on a trip and a cooler.

An IMPORTANT piece of information many people do NOT know is that payload is figured with FULL fluids in the truck INCLUDING GAS. So, you do NOT need to worry about your gas as a payload factor except knowing 30 miles down the road with a trailer and you just dropped 25 lbs of weight (approx 8 lbs per gallon). So, you can do the math and realize that except after a fill up you are dropping about 8 lbs per 10 miles towing.

Frankly, I don't like 30 lb propane tanks. It's so easy to grab 20 pounders everywhere and if you go with two 20's, you can pick up around 45 to 50 lbs. Same with a battery. Having one is another 45 lbs. So, by dropping a batt and going with smaller propane tanks can pick up in the range of 100 lbs. Now this may be a problem for those week long dry campers, but for most people it will work as you will likely have a genset of some sort. Further, my gray and black tanks and water sit over the axles or behind them. That impacts tongue weight to your benefit IF your trailer is designed that way. So, look for that in your design. But so does what you put in front storage. In the end about a wash. You can put one of those flip up hitch carriers on the back and put your genset on there also, or bikes etc. But watchem close.

So, I sort of look at it as a gestalt, looking at all the factors. I did have aftermarket airbags on my 2015, but the 2021 is actually better and so far the new set of airbags has not been installed. Yes, I know they do NOTHING for payload etc., but they can make some trucks feel better on the tow.

So, I'm driving down the road and looking at the dynamic of the towing experience including gas weight, WDH experience, and everything, I'm probably slightly over when I fill up the tank and slightly below 70 miles down the road. I watch closely ALL the factors and do my best to stay within limits but I know it is NOT a static event.

In reality, and realistically, a 500 lb tongue weight on the trailer would be best, but good luck finding a 5500 lb (dry), 6700 wet travel trailer with that. AND so, adjust your trailer WANTS carefully. The key factor often on a travel trailer is a slideout. For example, with a husband wife and two kids, on a relatively tricked out truck and a 1300ish payload, you are pretty much at payload when you take off with two batts and two 30 lb propane tanks. Keep the dynamic in mind. BUT, if you get, for example, a 27 or 28 foot bunkhouse WITHOUT a slide, there are some 5200 to 5500 lb travel trailers (bunkhouse) that do have a 500lb tongue weight. IF you want a door on your bedroom, add a couple of feet to length. Put a slide on and you are going to be at 600 dry tongue weight, get over it. I research assiduously as a retired guy and find it a general rule of thumb. I've been towing since 2004 starting with a Subaru Forester and a pop up moving to a smaller bunkhouse and now my Aspen Trail 2340 BHS that checks her boxes but pushes my envelope...

IF, you are that younger family want "full size bed" bunks (the 28/30 inchers get old real fast) and don't mind having the main bedroom area open, you can easily do a 25 footer (bunkhouse) without a slide all day with a 1300 ish payload and 8K total weight. AND 25 foot will get you into a lot of campsites a longer one won't. 25 feet is a sweet spot for amenities and campsite access. It checks all the boxes for families (twoish kids). There are some nice units out there in this range. We have a dinette/pantry slideout because we are old and got tired of watching the dog back down the hallway...

Or get a slide full big tanks and batts...and then you go back to the things I noted earlier in the post if you want to pick up some lbs. OR...get fewer bells and whistles on the truck and pick up some payload from the gitgo. To be honest, the longer Gen5 and a quad cab will pick up a couple hundred lbs quick and now days the quad cabs and tweeners to College age is not a real problem..

This is great stuff man, thanks for typing all that out, read every word (twice)!

Top 3 campers that I'm looking at right now are:

Sunset Trail 222RB - Dry Weight: 5213 | Dry Hitch: 524 | 27 feet
Apex Ultra-Lite 251RBK - Dry Weight: 4984 | Dry Hitch: 570 | 29 feet
Alpha Wolf 22SWL - Dry Weight: 5,328 | Dry Hitch: 570 | 27.6 feet

They all have slides but still seem to fall inside acceptable weight ranges. Don't need or want bunks.

The Sunset seems to have a nice balance of dry weight, hitch weight, and length (and is my favorite floorplan overall, especially the bathroom layout). The Apex is lighter, but with a bit more hitch weight, and is longer (and has that sweet flip-around TV and is the only one around this weight range I've found that has both the sofa and the dinette). The Alpha is heavier than the other two, but not as long as the Apex (and has the nicest interior and exterior aesthetics/color scheme, plus the neat fireplace thingy).

It's gonna be just me and my wife most of the time (about 325lbs between us), but my son will also be with us occasionally. He's little right now (11 years old, around 85 pounds) but obviously won't stay that way forever so I've been figuring for 450lbs between the 3 of us, leaving 800lbs for the total hitch weight (rounded down).

I think with one battery (we're weekend warriors, not week-long boondockers), two 20lbs propane tanks (or one 30...or even one 20), a lighter weight WDH (currently looking at the Andersen), and nothing in the bed (with only a few items in the truck itself, like a small cooler and some electronics), we should be good. I'd be shocked if we put more than 800lbs of stuff in the trailer, *maybe* we'd get to a 1,000 with a few bicycles.

I know @IvoryHemi tows Apex's bigger than the one on my list, but his payload is slighter higher than mine too (I think).

 

[IvoryHemi]

I know @IvoryHemi tows Apex's bigger than the one on my list, but his payload is slighter higher than mine too (I think).

my payload is 1380

My Apex was listed at 585 lbs TW and 4,880 lbs dry. Actual weights were 5,209 lbs dry and TW (loaded) at 820 lbs.

My Outback was listed at 655 lbs TW and 6,601 lbs dry. Actual weights are 6,800 lbs dry and TW (loaded) at 960 lbs

So as you can see my actual measured tongue weight when loaded is ~40-45% above published specs

 

[AngelPhoenix]

my payload is 1380

My Apex was listed at 585 lbs TW and 4,880 lbs dry. Actual weights were 5,209 lbs dry and TW (loaded) at 820 lbs.

My Outback was listed at 655 lbs TW and 6,601 lbs dry. Actual weights are 6,800 lbs dry and TW (loaded) at 960 lbs

So as you can see my actual measured tongue weight when loaded is ~40-45% above published specs

What were you loaded weights, roughly, for each trailer?

And what made a 400lbs difference from listed dry to actual on the Apex?

Looks like even a 600lbs dry hitch weight would be too much for me. Based on an extrapolation with your numbers, a 570lbs dry hitch would put me right at my 800lbs cutoff when it's loaded. That Sunset Trail is looking like the way to go, out of these 3 at least. Dry weight in between the other two and a loaded weight well within my towing capacity. More manageable tongue weight. Shortest of the 3.

 

[IvoryHemi]

What were you loaded weights, roughly, for each trailer?

And what made a 400lbs difference from listed dry to actual on the Apex?

Apex @ ~6,500 lbs
Outback @ ~8,000 lbs

The only option my Apex had was the 15k a/c which adds no weight over the standard 13.5k unit

My guess is the “optional” but mandatory “Value Package” weight isn’t figured into the dry #

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Optional but mandatory lol kinda sounds like a certain policy related to a certain pointy something-or-other going on right now

Anyway, thanks man. Looks like I could probably get by with any of my top 3 but the Apex and and the Alpha would be right at my max TW. Maybe I'll just leave my son home

 

[Booch]

I went through ALL this back in 2016. I was pushing the limits of my Rebel with our 24' trailer. Needless to say when we upgraded to a 28', I was in a 2500 a few months later.

Sure you can "do" it if you are pushing the limits, and we did it plenty, but for me the fun-factor dropped pretty quick after an hour or so on the road.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

I went through ALL this back in 2016. I was pushing the limits of my Rebel with our 24' trailer. Needless to say when we upgraded to a 28', I was in a 2500 a few months later.

Sure you can "do" it if you are pushing the limits, and we did it plenty, but for me the fun-factor dropped pretty quick after an hour or so on the road.

Rebels are not very good for towing, from what I understand. Their different suspension is not conducive to it, among other things. Hell, the overall towing capability of a Powerwagon is only slightly better than most 1500's.

I have 3.92 gears and a 6'4'' bed (longer wheelbase, better stability). Trailer brake (of course). Air suspension to level. Hellwig sway bar. Might get LT tires if I feel like I need them after a couple of pulls. A good WDH and I'll be as solid as I can get.

Obviously the thing is the weight of the truck needs to be enough to stay well planted during emergency stops and maneuvers, so I get what you're saying. For the foreseeable future (next 5+ years), I'll only be travel trailering 3-5 times per year, not going particularly far, not going out west (where winds and big mountains become more of an issue, I'm in central PA), and not putting a whole lot in the trailer (2-3 night stays). Also would have no problem slogging it at 50-55, pulling over in bad weather, etc. I daily drive this thing so 98% of the time, I'm not towing.

If I could afford both a daily driver AND a truck with everything I'd need and (most of what I would) want in both, I'd do that, but right now I need one vehicle that can do a lot of different things.

Optimal trade-in time period is just inside 3 years, or right before you hit the 36K warranty cutoff. At that point, I'll know if I truly need a 2500+ or not.

 

[NRitland2]

Rebels are not very good for towing, from what I understand. Their different suspension is not conducive to it, among other things. Hell, the overall towing capability of a Powerwagon is only slightly better than most 1500's.

I have 3.92 gears and a 6'4'' bed (longer wheelbase, better stability). Trailer brake (of course). Air suspension to level. Hellwig sway bar. Might get LT tires if I feel like I need them after a couple of pulls. A good WDH and I'll be as solid as I can get.

Obviously the thing is the weight of the truck needs to be enough to stay well planted during emergency stops and maneuvers, so I get what you're saying. For the foreseeable future (next 5+ years), I'll only be travel trailering 3-5 times per year, not going particularly far, not going out west (where winds and big mountains become more of an issue, I'm in central PA), and not putting a whole lot in the trailer (2-3 night stays). Also would have no problem slogging it at 50-55, pulling over in bad weather, etc. I daily drive this thing so 98% of the time, I'm not towing.

If I could afford both a daily driver AND a truck with everything I'd need and (most of what I would) want in both, I'd do that, but right now I need one vehicle that can do a lot of different things.

Optimal trade-in time period is just inside 3 years, or right before you hit the 36K warranty cutoff. At that point, I'll know if I truly need a 2500+ or not.

The Sunsets are nice Rigs!

Drive safely. Stay within speed ranges. We upgraded ourselves and cant wait for early April

 

[Redfour5]

There is only a ~36 lbs difference full

20 lb tank = 37 lbs
30 lb tank = 55 lbs

That's why I am generalizing and ball parking... It is a dynamic. I've done all the specific measurements and it and in the end it just becomes an excercise in OCD... The truck emply (with a full tank of gas) is 45 lbs less than the sticker on the scales. Do I count the ice in the cooler? Honey, what was your weight this morning? Nope, not going there... Nope, ball park works for me... Been there done that on the exact weights a long time ago... I'll get the difference in a few miles down the road as the gas tank empties... Do I figure out how to calculate an average and plug it into the equation?

There is a difference in how much a gallon of gas weighs depending upon the additives... Is there a gallon of water still in the trailer water tank? How far forward of the axle is it so I can calculate the impact upon tongue weight. If you rough it and don't bias every weight in your favor it all evens out.

I either have done these things or seen others get truly detailed to the point that I wondered about them... Weigh your truck once and your trailer once or take their word on the trailer as they are supposed to weigh it as it comes off the assembly line...