4" coilover suspension?

[Desert Dawg]

Yeah that’s really annoying! I guarantee it’s a 6” kit that’s marketed as 5” to the rebel guys since their trucks have a 1” factory lift. And yep I bet the rebel 3” system is actually the 4” for the regular trucks. If they claimed something else I’d have a reallyyy hard time believing that unless they had facts to back it up

I really want to believe that as it would be close to the perfect set up for me, but still struggling with the BDS response.

I had asked a few questions but really only got a response to my question about the new 3-inch systems.

My question:

There are two 3-inch Fox PE systems; one with coil overs and UCAs and one with a drop bracket kit. Not sure why a drop bracket kit is needed if BDS offers one with same lift that does not need it? But do both systems only net 2-inches of lift for the Rebel or does one net higher than the other?

Response from Scott Fox at BDS (Sport Truck USA):

Hi Paul, that is correct, it will not net full ride height due to taller ride height from factory for both kits. Them being coilovers do allow for some adjustment. The drop brackets just allow a little better angle with the front CV axles. It is not needed that is why we offer a kit without them. But if someone wanted to adjust the coilovers to make it taller, angles would not be an issue with the drop bracket kit. if you are ready to order, send me your number, and i can walk through the kit with you and get that ordered for you.

So, that led me to believe it is not the 4-inch system but a true 3-inch system (yet does not explain why the 3-inch Fox PE system is not listed in the 1500 catalog). If someone had a Rebel and wanted 3-inches, I suppose you could almost max out the Fox coil overs and get maybe 2.5- 2.75 inches of lift at cost of slightly stiffer ride but with the drop bracket kit you would also not have to worry about maxing out your geometry.

Add:

I think I might just opt for the 4-inch strut spacer for now since I just installed some Bilstein 6112s with factory Rebel springs after my Dirt Logic coil over fail. The 6112s are giving me under 2-inches of lift on the Rebel at max setting and ride great but just not providing the clearance and stance I want. So I can set the 6112s to zero lift and just use with the BDS strut lift although not sure if I can retain the Fabtech 3-inch UCAs (might not be an Issue if keeping same shock length for now).

The issue will be identifying which Fox 2.5 coil over to use when I am ready to replace both the 4-inch strut spacers and the Bilsteins; the Fox PE coil overs for the Rebel 5-inch PE system might be too long but the ones from the 1500 4-inch PE system might be too short. I feel like Goldilocks in that one is too cold and the other too hot as I really wanted a 3.5-4 inch lift for the Rebel that would be “just right” to achieve the stance I want while providing very good off-road capability that I could use.

 

[SKT Customs]

I really want to believe that as it would be close to the perfect set up for me, but still struggling with the BDS response.

I had asked a few questions but really only got a response to my question about the new 3-inch systems.

My question:

There are two 3-inch Fox PE systems; one with coil overs and UCAs and one with a drop bracket kit. Not sure why a drop bracket kit is needed if BDS offers one with same lift that does not need it? But do both systems only net 2-inches of lift for the Rebel or does one net higher than the other?

Response from Scott Fox at BDS (Sport Truck USA):

Hi Paul, that is correct, it will not net full ride height due to taller ride height from factory for both kits. Them being coilovers do allow for some adjustment. The drop brackets just allow a little better angle with the front CV axles. It is not needed that is why we offer a kit without them. But if someone wanted to adjust the coilovers to make it taller, angles would not be an issue with the drop bracket kit. if you are ready to order, send me your number, and i can walk through the kit with you and get that ordered for you.

So, that led me to believe it is not the 4-inch system but a true 3-inch system (yet does not explain why the 3-inch Fox PE system is not listed in the 1500 catalog). If someone had a Rebel and wanted 3-inches, I suppose you could almost max out the Fox coil overs and get maybe 2.5- 2.75 inches of lift at cost of slightly stiffer ride but with the drop bracket kit you would also not have to worry about maxing out your geometry.

Yeah that’s confusing man! If it were me I’d probably get the 5” kit that allegedly nets 4” (even though that still sounds stupid), that way worse case scenario you can remove some preload and increase the adjustments on the clickers to get desired ride height and performance. Plus with that setup you can fit 37s & I personally think 37s look so good on our trucks lol.

 

[Desert Dawg]

Yeah that’s confusing man! If it were me I’d probably get the 5” kit that allegedly nets 4” (even though that still sounds stupid), that way worse case scenario you can remove some preload and increase the adjustments on the clickers to get desired ride height and performance. Plus with that setup you can fit 37s & I personally think 37s look so good on our trucks lol.

Further clarification from Scott Fox at BDS:

Hi Paul, the base kit components of the rebel 3 inch PE kit and the standard 1500 4 inch PE kit are exactly the same. There is also some adjustability in the coilovers themselves. I would go with the 3 inch PE kit for your rebel. It should give you the height, and ride you are looking for.

So, I think that it is the solution for me; just go with the BDS Rebel 3-inch Fox PE kit (BDS 1500 4-inch Fox PE kit) and dial them up a tad and net about 3.25-3.5 inches of lift on the Rebel....perfect!

 

[ayoslickxd]

I really want to believe that as it would be close to the perfect set up for me, but still struggling with the BDS response.

I had asked a few questions but really only got a response to my question about the new 3-inch systems.

My question:

There are two 3-inch Fox PE systems; one with coil overs and UCAs and one with a drop bracket kit. Not sure why a drop bracket kit is needed if BDS offers one with same lift that does not need it? But do both systems only net 2-inches of lift for the Rebel or does one net higher than the other?

Response from Scott Fox at BDS (Sport Truck USA):

Hi Paul, that is correct, it will not net full ride height due to taller ride height from factory for both kits. Them being coilovers do allow for some adjustment. The drop brackets just allow a little better angle with the front CV axles. It is not needed that is why we offer a kit without them. But if someone wanted to adjust the coilovers to make it taller, angles would not be an issue with the drop bracket kit. if you are ready to order, send me your number, and i can walk through the kit with you and get that ordered for you.

So, that led me to believe it is not the 4-inch system but a true 3-inch system (yet does not explain why the 3-inch Fox PE system is not listed in the 1500 catalog). If someone had a Rebel and wanted 3-inches, I suppose you could almost max out the Fox coil overs and get maybe 2.5- 2.75 inches of lift at cost of slightly stiffer ride but with the drop bracket kit you would also not have to worry about maxing out your geometry.

Add:

I think I might just opt for the 4-inch strut spacer for now since I just installed some Bilstein 6112s with factory Rebel springs after my Dirt Logic coil over fail. The 6112s are giving me under 2-inches of lift on the Rebel at max setting and ride great but just not providing the clearance and stance I want. So I can set the 6112s to zero lift and just use with the BDS strut lift although not sure if I can retain the Fabtech 3-inch UCAs (might not be an Issue if keeping same shock length for now).

The issue will be identifying which Fox 2.5 coil over to use when I am ready to replace both the 4-inch strut spacers and the Bilsteins; the Fox PE coil overs for the Rebel 5-inch PE system might be too long but the ones from the 1500 4-inch PE system might be too short. I feel like Goldilocks in that one is too cold and the other too hot as I really wanted a 3.5-4 inch lift for the Rebel that would be “just right” to achieve the stance I want while providing very good off-road capability that I could use.

im like your shadow in the same boar currentlt have the fox 2.5 dsc 2-3 lift. i may just add a inch top hat spacer i think is what they call it

 

[Desert Dawg]

Okay, I finally got it all sorted out with BDS with one last round of emails.

I basically stated that if I order the non-drop bracket 3-inch PE system for the Rebel, I will net out 2-inches of lift since that is the same system for both the Ram 1500 and Rebel (same part numbers). I could adjust the Fox coil-overs a tad more to around 2.25-2.5 inches of lift for the Rebel but would probably start maxing out my CV angles so that would not be ideal. But because it nets out only 2 inches on the Rebel, I can only fit 33-inch tall tires (per BDS site). If so, then no need for me to consider that kit since I am running 35s.

If I order the drop bracket 3-inch PE system for the Rebel (basically the same system as the Ram 1500 4-inch PE kit), I will net 3-inches of actual lift for the Rebel. Also, that system allows me to fit up to 35-inch tall tires (according to BDS). And, I can still adjust in another 1/4-1/2 inch or so to give me a slightly higher ride height at 3.25-3.5 inches (or in other words, same height as a 1500 with a 4-inch lift). But I would have the Fox 2.5 DSC shocks which would be killer.

I think I was initially thrown a bit when the first BDS response was that both 3-inch systems would net lower at 2-inches on the Rebel, but that didn't make sense if one can only fit 33s and the other can fit 35s. So I reasoned that the drop bracket PE kit must net out an inch higher (which makes sense if the system is the same as the 1500 4-inch kit).

So asked Scott at BDS if I was correct and his response was "yes"! Why it was so convoluted to get there, I will never know. BDS would do everyone, including itself, a big favor if they would just say so on their website: This Rebel 3-inch FOX PE kit that you see here, despite the photos showing a 1500 with a 6-inch lift, will net out 3-inches of actual lift for the 5th Gen Rebel. See...that wasn't so hard!

So the BDS Rebel 3-inch Fox Performance Elite system is basically the same as the BDS 1500 4-inch Fox Performance Elite system. I would net 3-inches of lift and dial in closer to 3.25-3.5 inches of total lift to fit my 35s, get the slightly more aggressive stance/look I want, not raise the center of gravity too extremely (like a 5- or 6-inch lift) for off-canter wheeling, and keeping my front end geometry close to factory! Plus, the truck will still fit into my garage at night. Perfect!

Now, I just need to figure out if I can retain my Fabtech UCA that came with the 3-inch Dirt Logic system. Not sure if the quality is as good as the BDS version, but it was designed for a 3-inch lift so I may just try it out to see how it performs with the new suspension. If it works, then I don't have to shell another $900 for the BDS UCAs which I think have had questionable quality issues recently (although I am sure BDS has since resolved).

 

[bbbeeennnjjjeee]

Okay, I finally got it all sorted out with BDS with one last round of emails.

I basically stated that if I order the non-drop bracket 3-inch PE system for the Rebel, I will net out 2-inches of lift since that is the same system for both the Ram 1500 and Rebel (same part numbers). I could adjust the Fox coil-overs a tad more to around 2.25-2.5 inches of lift for the Rebel but would probably start maxing out my CV angles so that would not be ideal. But because it nets out only 2 inches on the Rebel, I can only fit 33-inch tall tires (per BDS site). If so, then no need for me to consider that kit since I am running 35s.

If I order the drop bracket 3-inch PE system for the Rebel (basically the same system as the Ram 1500 4-inch PE kit), I will net 3-inches of actual lift for the Rebel. Also, that system allows me to fit up to 35-inch tall tires (according to BDS). And, I can still adjust in another 1/4-1/2 inch or so to give me a slightly higher ride height at 3.25-3.5 inches (or in other words, same height as a 1500 with a 4-inch lift). But I would have the Fox 2.5 DSC shocks which would be killer.

I think I was initially thrown a bit when the first BDS response was that both 3-inch systems would net lower at 2-inches on the Rebel, but that didn't make sense if one can only fit 33s and the other can fit 35s. So I reasoned that the drop bracket PE kit must net out an inch higher (which makes sense if the system is the same as the 1500 4-inch kit).

So asked Scott at BDS if I was correct and his response was "yes"! Why it was so convoluted to get there, I will never know. BDS would do everyone, including itself, if they would just say so on their website: This Rebel 3-inch FOX PE kit that you see here, despite the photos showing a 1500 with a 6-inch lift, will net out 3-inches of actual lift for the 5th Gen Rebel. See...that wasn't so hard!

So the BDS Rebel 3-inch Fox Performance Elite system is basically the same as the BDS 1500 4-inch Fox Performance Elite system. I would net 3-inches of lift and dial in closer to 3.25-3.5 inches of total lift to fit my 35s, get the slightly more aggressive stance/look I want, not raise the center of gravity too extremely (like a 5- or 6-inch lift) for off-canter wheeling, and keeping my front end geometry close to factory! Plus, the truck will still fit into my garage at night. Perfect!

Now, I just need to figure out if I can retain my Fabtech UCA that came with the 3-inch Dirt Logic system. Not sure if the quality is as good as the BDS version, but it was designed for a 3-inch lift so I may just try it out to see how it performs with the new suspension. If it works, then I don't have to shell another $900 for the BDS UCAs which I think have had questionable quality issues recently (although I am sure BDS has since resolved).

Droop and joint angle are really the two things you’re solving with a UCA. You should be fine to keep what you f got.

 

[Desert Dawg]

Droop and joint angle are really the two things you’re solving with a UCA. You should be fine to keep what you f got.

That’s my thought. Hopefully it does work out.

 

[ayoslickxd]

That’s my thought. Hopefully it does work out.

i have bds 2/3 inch control arms … i have 2 inch lift and fit 305/70/18 baja boss no issues lol so idk about only fitting 33 inch tires
but thanks maybe i can use what i have to net 3 inchs will talk to them also after looking i guess i would just need bds drop kit then since i have the coilovers and rear fox 2.5 dsc …doesnt seem to be a different size

 

[SKT Customs]

Nice I’m glad to hear you finally got it sorted! Couple things I just want to mention: 1) you can fit 35s with a 2” lift on rebels. 2) I have the 4” kit for standard 1500s and it raised my truck 4.5”, so for your application it could potentially raise the truck 3.5” right out of the box. 3) I would get clarification from BDS if they’re upper arms work with the 3” drop bracket system because I was under the impression that since you have the drop brackets it keeps the geometry basically the same so you can’t use arms that are designed for 2-3” more droop. This is just what I read but it could be wrong, idk. 4) The BDS drop brackets for the 3” rebel/4” standard/5” rebel/6” standard are all the exact same part number. So if you went with the 3” kit and let’s say later down the line you’d like your truck to be taller or fit 37s (which is exactly what I did), you don’t have to swap out your lift kit. You can adjust preload on the coilovers or add a top hat spacer (potentially), and then get longer coils in the rear & probably shock extenders if you don’t want to buy all new shocks, and boom your truck is now a couple inches taller and fits 37s if you wanted it.

 

[SKT Customs]

Oh and the last thing, make sure to register your BDS lift online to get the warranty! They offer a full drivetrain/suspension warranty on any parts that the dealership won’t fix because they claim it was the lift kits fault! But you have to register the product, it doesn’t just automatically come with the warranty. I made that mistake and it cost me $5k in damages the dealer didn’t cover but BDS would have covered if I had registered my lift!

 

[ayoslickxd]

i just called bds to see if i can use my coilover i have part number 883 06 166
they said no that the coilover they have is a 3 inch ask ror part number it was same as what i have currently (883 06 166)

so now im confused if i can buy just they kit with out they coilovers

 

[Desert Dawg]

Nice I’m glad to hear you finally got it sorted! Couple things I just want to mention: 1) you can fit 35s with a 2” lift on rebels. 2) I have the 4” kit for standard 1500s and it raised my truck 4.5”, so for your application it could potentially raise the truck 3.5” right out of the box. 3) I would get clarification from BDS if they’re upper arms work with the 3” drop bracket system because I was under the impression that since you have the drop brackets it keeps the geometry basically the same so you can’t use arms that are designed for 2-3” more droop. This is just what I read but it could be wrong, idk. 4) The BDS drop brackets for the 3” rebel/4” standard/5” rebel/6” standard are all the exact same part number. So if you went with the 3” kit and let’s say later down the line you’d like your truck to be taller or fit 37s (which is exactly what I did), you don’t have to swap out your lift kit. You can adjust preload on the coilovers or add a top hat spacer (potentially), and then get longer coils in the rear & probably shock extenders if you don’t want to buy all new shocks, and boom your truck is now a couple inches taller and fits 37s if you wanted it.

I agree that you can fit 35s with a 2-inch lift on the Rebel as that is exactly what I am running now with my Bilstein 6112 setup (actually, it netted just under 2 inches of added lift). I was just referencing what BDS says will fit between the two different 3-inch systems.

Regarding the UCAs, I also agree that BDS is inconsistent as they mention that their UCAs are designed to be used for lifts at or above 4-inches, but then they include their UCAs in their non-drop bracket 3-inch lift and offer to sell as an option on the drop bracket 3-inch kit especially if you want to dial in a tad more lift on the coil overs. When I questioned them about keeping my Fabtech 3-inch lift UCAs, they advised against it but only because they can only attest to how their UCAs perform with their systems. But I think all of that makes sense and supports your thought that the 3-inch drop bracket with the Fox 2.5 PE coil overs might net closer to 3.5 inches of lift on the Rebel with some adjustability up to almost 4-inches. I guess that is why they provide their UCAs for the non-drop bracket 3-inch kit for a normal 1500 since you actually net 3 inches of lift and can dial in a tag more. But not totally sure about that.

 

[ayoslickxd]

I agree that you can fit 35s with a 2-inch lift on the Rebel as that is exactly what I am running now with my Bilstein 6112 setup (actually, it netted just under 2 inches of added lift). I was just referencing what BDS says will fit between the two different 3-inch systems.

Regarding the UCAs, I also agree that BDS is inconsistent as they mention that their UCAs are designed to be used for lifts at or above 4-inches, but then they include their UCAs in their non-drop bracket 3-inch lift and offer to sell as an option on the drop bracket 3-inch kit especially if you want to dial in a tad more lift on the coil overs. When I questioned them about keeping my Fabtech 3-inch lift UCAs, they advised against it but only because they can only attest to how their UCAs perform with their systems. But I think all of that makes sense and supports your thought that the 3-inch drop bracket with the Fox 2.5 PE coil overs might net closer to 3.5 inches of lift on the Rebel with some adjustability up to almost 4-inches. I guess that is why they provide their UCAs for the non-drop bracket 3-inch kit for a normal 1500 since you actually net 3 inches of lift and can dial in a tag more. But not totally sure about that.

so i should change to 4-6 inch uca or should i use the 2-3inch bds uca i have…. i want 3.5 of lift so will max out my coilovers. and install drop kit and most likey add a half inch top hat spacer …… reason is. the 3 inch pe kit they have is the same as what i currently have on just with out the drop kit they have

 

[Desert Dawg]

so i should change to 4-6 inch uca or should i use the 2-3inch bds uca i have…. i want 3.5 of lift so will max out my coilovers. and install drop kit and most likey add a half inch top hat spacer …… reason is. the 3 inch pe kit they have is the same as what i currently have on just with out the drop kit they have

I had to think about this some more and then it finally dawned on me that I should be changing my Fabtech 3-inch UCAs as well. On the BDS site for the 3-inch PE dop bracket kit, if you choose the UCA option, they state that they use an indexed ball joint cup to correct the ball joint positioning when used with 2-3" leveling kits (#122253) or used on 4-6" suspension lifts (#122252). The UCA part number for the 3-inch drop bracket kit is #122252 which is the same as their 4-inch drop bracket kit. While the "net" lift for this kit on the Rebel is "3-inches", you are taking the Rebel down to the base ride height and adding the 1500 4-inch drop brackets. As others have said, the base components for both the 3-inch and 4-inch PE drop bracket kits all have the same component part numbers. So if you do change from the 2-3 inch PE-UCA kit to the 3-inch PE drop bracket kit, I would definitely change to the recommended BDS UCAs. I don't know enough about the actual angles needed, but at ~$900 for the BDS UCAs, I think I want to research other options for maybe even better versions for that price.

Also, the rear Fox shocks and springs are longer on the 3-inch drop bracket kit than on the 2-3 inch kit, so you'll have to change that out too (or just add a rear spring spacer but not sure your current Fox shocks would get over extended when off-roading).

Add: The other issue is that BDS states that if you use the top preload spacer (on either the 3-inch or 4-inch PE drop bracket kits), the front will sit about 1/2" higher than the rear. If you don't use the preload spacer, the front will be 3/8" lower. So if you want a leveled truck, you either to forego the front spacer and/or dial in 3/8" of additional lift from the coil overs, or use a rear spring spacer to raise the rear by at least an inch. For me, I wanted to attain a true 3-3.5 inches of front lift for the Rebel and really don't want to keep a spring spacer in the rear like what I have now, so I guess I would need to forego the front preload spacer and dial in the difference.

Edit: BDS is now providing more specific info in their comments box. Not sure if they are reading this thread...lol...but kind of ironic that they are now clarifying the net height issue (or I have missed that all along for the Rebel/ORP trucks).

 

[SKT Customs]

Hey guys I figured I’d revive this thread to not only offer some info but maybe one of you could clarify something for me also.!
BDS is offering 20% off everything right now, so I decided to finally buy the Fox 2.5s front and rear; I wanted the 6” Performance Elite coilovers up front and the 4” performance elite’s in the rear. For the past 7 months the 4” PE kit has been listed on the website and then YESTERDAY (the day before I called to place my order) suddenly BDS removed the 4” PE kit as well as the rebel 3” PE kit with drop brackets (same kit as we discussed earlier) from the website entirely! When I called to place the order I gave them the part numbers and then when I asked if the 4” PE and 6” PE kits actually use the same rear shocks (since the part numbers were the same) they took a look and responded confused saying there is no 4” PE option. I said sure there is, I’ve been looking into buying it for 7 months! Turns out the removed it from the website on Sunday and nobody in the sales department or the tech department knows why, so they told me they didn’t feel comfortable selling me the shocks (that WERE previously listed as compatible with 4” and 6” rear kits) because they don’t know if it was removed from the website by mistake or if it was removed on purpose because maybe something wasn’t right or maybe Fox is going to be bringing a new version out. They had no clue. So with all that being said, did any of you ever get the 4” PE kit?? Or the 3” PE kit specifically for the rebel? And if so, did the rear shocks fit or are they too long? I’m still willing to buy everything because it’s all in stock ready to go, they just couldn’t answer my question so they wanted to hold off. But if I get the answer from one of you that the rear shocks do indeed fit then I’ll pull the trigger and order it up!
Thanks

 

[ayoslickxd]

i got the 5 inch pe for rebel which is a 6 inch lift and when i opened the box the shocks looked the same size as the original 2.5 rears i had meant for 0-2 inchs

i had also looked and saw the front coilovers are same part also for boths kits

 

[SKT Customs]

i got the 5 inch pe for rebel which is a 6 inch lift and when i opened the box the shocks looked the same size as the original 2.5 rears i had meant for 0-2 inchs

i had also looked and saw the front coilovers are same part also for boths kits

Oh wow, no kidding?? That’s crazy because that one actually is a different part number. But I guess if the shocks for the 0-2 inch lift are basically the same size as the 5” ones then that means they’ll probably work fine with 3.75” rear lift like my truck has. Thanks for that info!

 

[ayoslickxd]

Oh wow, no kidding?? That’s crazy because that one actually is a different part number. But I guess if the shocks for the 0-2 inch lift are basically the same size as the 5” ones then that means they’ll probably work fine with 3.75” rear lift like my truck has. Thanks for that info!

im gonna get you a exact measurement … just to make sure i have the one i got from bds kit and the original i purchased before lift


i will take them off measure take pic

 

[SKT Customs]

im gonna get you a exact measurement … just to make sure i have the one i got from bds kit and the original i purchased before lift


i will take them off measure take pic

Dude that would be amazing but I hate to make you do all that! No worries if you can’t! Thank you though!

 

[ayoslickxd]

Dude that would be amazing but I hate to make you do all that! No worries if you can’t! Thank you though!

lol it takes 15 mins to take it off … just have to wait till im back home next week monday i gotchu