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35 tire help please

Lpsouth1978

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I can see both sides of it. I will disagree with theblet here, I had top hat spacers AND new control arms (all in one kit, same manufacturer so they should be matched right?) and I had issues. Enough issues that instead of spending more money to fix it I just got rid of the truck and started over. I think it goes like this

Cheap, mostly for looks and usually to maintain ride? Leveling spacers, add control arms if needed. Some may have issues, but most don't.

Buy once, cry once but opens up a whole new ball game on off road ride and some on road ride? New coilovers or higher performing coils/shocks, no top hat spacer. Mechanical issues will be very rare, ride quality is subjective opinion (as evidenced from responses in this thread and others)

Some of you may like watching some of the extremely informative videos Filthy Motorsports has put out. Here is a link to one
Thank you for posting that video. I found the section on independent suspension quite informative and pertinent to this discussion. He does a nice job explaining how doing a 2" to 2.5" lift/level, is generally not an issue, but over 3" can cause premature wear and damage to the suspension system. It actually has me questioning my choice to go with a 3" front spacer, even with the upgraded UCA's. I may have to drop the truck ~1" with shorter spacers. HAHA
 

theblet

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I can see both sides of it. I will disagree with theblet here, I had top hat spacers AND new control arms (all in one kit, same manufacturer so they should be matched right?) and I had issues. Enough issues that instead of spending more money to fix it I just got rid of the truck and started over. I think it goes like this

Cheap, mostly for looks and usually to maintain ride? Leveling spacers, add control arms if needed. Some may have issues, but most don't.

Buy once, cry once but opens up a whole new ball game on off road ride and some on road ride? New coilovers or higher performing coils/shocks, no top hat spacer. Mechanical issues will be very rare, ride quality is subjective opinion (as evidenced from responses in this thread and others)

Some of you may like watching some of the extremely informative videos Filthy Motorsports has put out. Here is a link to one
Sucks that you had issues. I can see your point.
 

boogielander

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When you make absolute statements like this, you lose some credibility. You are letting your biases get in the way of an objective review.
yes. but there's nothing to debate regarding spacer lifts. if it's something worth having a debate about like king vs fox which one is better then i do agree being absolute lose some credibility (in that case i hold neutral opinion, i had/ have them both and love both)
well, i offered my advise and ultimately it's up to the owner to choose to mickey mouse it or do it the right way. look at any legit suspension company that puts time in R&D and see if they offer can stand behind spacer lift. I think it's pretty apparent.
 

boogielander

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Ok, we have seen you say that a spacer is "Micky Mouse" but you have not said one thing about what the ACTUAL issue is with them. What problems they cause, what damage will occur, why they are a bad way to go, etc. Making all encompassing statements with no supporting info does NO ONE any favors. If you want to educate people, then actually educate them, don't just make statements with nothing to support them. I truly welcome you to provide evidence as to why spacers are so bad, I am genuinely curious. Keep in mind that failures WILL happen with any product, including "proper" lifts.

That being said. I do have spacers on my 2021 Laramie and have been VERY happy with them. The truck still has a very nice ride, not quite stock, but I am also running 35" E rated tires, so I don't expect stock. I also replaced the UCA's to correct the geometry and have had ZERO issues with this combo. I take my truck to a very trusted shop for oil changes every 5000 miles and I always have them do a full inspection of the truck to ensure everything is still in top condition. No issues yet!

I will say that using something like Bilsteins, or a "proper" lift is likely a better way to go, it is not the ONLY way to go. Thousands (likely hundreds of thousands) of vehicles use spacers with NO issues. For those of us who don't do any heavy off roading but would like a small lift and/or larger tires, spacers are a perfectly viable option.
alright i guess i gotta go extra mileto list out reasons when a simple youtube search can yield videos with more articulate presentation and visual aide that do better explanation than i do. I'll do my best to make the explanation relatable. bear with me.

-Limited Travel
here's an over-simplified example. you are limiting your suspension down travel. Suppose your suspension has a travel of position 1-10. At normal ride height your piston inside the strut is sitting at position 5, middle. When your suspension is going over bumps it compresses, making the piston move up to position 6, 7, 8, etc. You have 5 positions to go. On the other hand, when you're going over dips, potholes, etc it droops, so your piston moves down to position 4, 3, 2, etc.
Now, spacer lift pushes your piston down to create that "lifted" look instead of adding more length to your strut. So now your piston at ride height is at position 4, 3, or even 2 and you don't have anymore downward travel that is needed to absorb the impact when going over dips, potholes ,etc., and now it's the bottom of the strut absorbing all the impacts. Your UCA is extended and so is your ball joint, and therefore your UCA ball joint now serves as your limiting device for downward travel. Basically, you are asking your UCA to do something it's not designed to do. In addition, your upward travel is now not limited by the bump stop, but solely rely on the shocks that are less than 2" in diameter. Hit it hard enough and it will bend or break.
On the other hand, suspension lift kits with struts and springs add more length to your strut and proper spring rate. So you have more space in each position. You're still at position 5 at ride height, even lifted, because each "zone" for each position is bigger. You retain your travel and each component retains its function without being asked to do what it's not supposed to do (like ball joint acting as a up travel bump stop or your shock acting as a limiting strap.
Now, some people say you can just add UCA and diff drop to eliminate those issues. True, you can, but that still does NOT solve the issue of limited travel. And you're still not utilizing the bump stop to help disperse the force of impact, and you're still asking components to do things they are not designed to do.
See this animation by Accutune here: https://accutuneoffroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/coilover-with-top-hat-spacer-animation.gif

-Stiff ride
Because you are limited suspension travel, any imperfection on the road is passed on to the truck. IF you live in places that has terrible roads like California, where you cannot go one mile without finding a pothole or crack on the road and they take forever to fix/ fill, you will feel it as you go through them. And every time you feel it, you are just adding more stress to your suspension.

Your suspension doesn't know on-road and off-road. The only differences between the two are: intensities of travel, frequency of travel, and intensities of impact. Offroad just intensifies all the above. Again, overly simplified estimation here: IF your spacer lifted shock has life expectancy of 2 years on road, offroad reduces it to 1 year or less due to more intense travel, more frequent travel, and more frequent impact.

-Why I call it mickey mouse
Your suspension needs travel to do its job. Adding spacer lift takes away travel and therefore, prevents the suspension from dampening the ride for the look.
That's like adding a HEMI badge to a Pentastar equipped vehicle. Or what I found on my customer's DIY wiring job after removing layers of e-tape:
1688206516151.jpeg
Does it work? Yes, it does. Will it start a fire? Probably not. Is it safe? No, it's not. The correct way to do this is to use connectors and heat shrinks, but somehow dude thinks doing it this way is "just as good" and "more economical." That is what spacer lift is like. Mickey mouse.

-Regarding some think Bilstein is stiff
That is due to valving. There are various types of valving in suspension and different companies use different types of valving system. That's a whole another topic that's not relevant to topic on hand. Reason why I said "at least" Bilstein because it is the only shock company that strikes a balance among quality, affordability, and longevity. There are some other companies' products... let's just say, quirky.

-Suspension is wear item. There's is no one set of suspension that can serve you for life. King and Fox will need to be rebuilt at some point (depends on your usage). Bilstein 5100s will need to be thrown away at some point (again, depend on your usage) due to their sealed design. Maybe start looking at them as your tires, brake pads, etc that are wear items can help you change the way you see things.

Hopefully my explanation is good enough for you. If not, just read what AccuTune wrote here: Spacer Lift vs Preload Spacer vs Coilover Preload - AccuTune Off-Road

There's a reason why I'm a tech/ outfitter and not a teacher.
 

Idahoktm

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alright i guess i gotta go extra mileto list out reasons when a simple youtube search can yield videos with more articulate presentation and visual aide that do better explanation than i do. I'll do my best to make the explanation relatable. bear with me.

-Limited Travel
here's an over-simplified example. you are limiting your suspension down travel. Suppose your suspension has a travel of position 1-10. At normal ride height your piston inside the strut is sitting at position 5, middle. When your suspension is going over bumps it compresses, making the piston move up to position 6, 7, 8, etc. You have 5 positions to go. On the other hand, when you're going over dips, potholes, etc it droops, so your piston moves down to position 4, 3, 2, etc.
Now, spacer lift pushes your piston down to create that "lifted" look instead of adding more length to your strut. So now your piston at ride height is at position 4, 3, or even 2 and you don't have anymore downward travel that is needed to absorb the impact when going over dips, potholes ,etc., and now it's the bottom of the strut absorbing all the impacts. Your UCA is extended and so is your ball joint, and therefore your UCA ball joint now serves as your limiting device for downward travel. Basically, you are asking your UCA to do something it's not designed to do. In addition, your upward travel is now not limited by the bump stop, but solely rely on the shocks that are less than 2" in diameter. Hit it hard enough and it will bend or break.
On the other hand, suspension lift kits with struts and springs add more length to your strut and proper spring rate. So you have more space in each position. You're still at position 5 at ride height, even lifted, because each "zone" for each position is bigger. You retain your travel and each component retains its function without being asked to do what it's not supposed to do (like ball joint acting as a up travel bump stop or your shock acting as a limiting strap.
Now, some people say you can just add UCA and diff drop to eliminate those issues. True, you can, but that still does NOT solve the issue of limited travel. And you're still not utilizing the bump stop to help disperse the force of impact, and you're still asking components to do things they are not designed to do.
See this animation by Accutune here: https://accutuneoffroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/coilover-with-top-hat-spacer-animation.gif

-Stiff ride
Because you are limited suspension travel, any imperfection on the road is passed on to the truck. IF you live in places that has terrible roads like California, where you cannot go one mile without finding a pothole or crack on the road and they take forever to fix/ fill, you will feel it as you go through them. And every time you feel it, you are just adding more stress to your suspension.

Your suspension doesn't know on-road and off-road. The only differences between the two are: intensities of travel, frequency of travel, and intensities of impact. Offroad just intensifies all the above. Again, overly simplified estimation here: IF your spacer lifted shock has life expectancy of 2 years on road, offroad reduces it to 1 year or less due to more intense travel, more frequent travel, and more frequent impact.

-Why I call it mickey mouse
Your suspension needs travel to do its job. Adding spacer lift takes away travel and therefore, prevents the suspension from dampening the ride for the look.
That's like adding a HEMI badge to a Pentastar equipped vehicle. Or what I found on my customer's DIY wiring job after removing layers of e-tape:
View attachment 161922
Does it work? Yes, it does. Will it start a fire? Probably not. Is it safe? No, it's not. The correct way to do this is to use connectors and heat shrinks, but somehow dude thinks doing it this way is "just as good" and "more economical." That is what spacer lift is like. Mickey mouse.

-Regarding some think Bilstein is stiff
That is due to valving. There are various types of valving in suspension and different companies use different types of valving system. That's a whole another topic that's not relevant to topic on hand. Reason why I said "at least" Bilstein because it is the only shock company that strikes a balance among quality, affordability, and longevity. There are some other companies' products... let's just say, quirky.

-Suspension is wear item. There's is no one set of suspension that can serve you for life. King and Fox will need to be rebuilt at some point (depends on your usage). Bilstein 5100s will need to be thrown away at some point (again, depend on your usage) due to their sealed design. Maybe start looking at them as your tires, brake pads, etc that are wear items can help you change the way you see things.

Hopefully my explanation is good enough for you. If not, just read what AccuTune wrote here: Spacer Lift vs Preload Spacer vs Coilover Preload - AccuTune Off-Road

There's a reason why I'm a tech/ outfitter and not a teacher.

How many of your average Ram truck owners are using the full 8"-9" of stock suspension travel? Adding a 1 1/2"-1 3/4" spacer to that same truck is not going to cause his shock to bottom out more, if at all.

There's no argument that a lifting strut is a better solution vs a spacer. You're a serious off-road guy, so in your case a spacer is just stupid. I'm on the street 95% of the time and when I'm not I am driving down a logging road with dirt bikes in the back, which limits how fast I can drive.

I appreciate your expert opinion, but your blanket criticism of spacers is unnecessarily harsh. They work without any issues for the majority of owners and the ride is not crap, unless you consider the stock ride as crap.
 

boogielander

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How many of your average Ram truck owners are using the full 8"-9" of stock suspension travel? Adding a 1 1/2"-1 3/4" spacer to that same truck is not going to cause his shock to bottom out more, if at all.

There's no argument that a lifting strut is a better solution vs a spacer. You're a serious off-road guy, so in your case a spacer is just stupid. I'm on the street 95% of the time and when I'm not I am driving down a logging road with dirt bikes in the back, which limits how fast I can drive.

I appreciate your expert opinion, but your blanket criticism of spacers is unnecessarily harsh. They work without any issues for the majority of owners and the ride is not crap, unless you consider the stock ride as crap.
i mean, i practice buy once cry once and do it right the first time. half-*** things just because "i won't need it" is never the correct thing to do.
Sure, it can be more "budget friendly" (aka, cheap) but still incorrect when it comes to geometry, stress, and design standpoint as I have outlined above. I mean, if it was as good as those believers think it is, why did Ram put 1" suspension lift for Rebels instead of just good ol' pucks from factory?

I advocate for doing things correctly or don't do it at all, not "meh as long as it works" or "just as good."
Much like when you marry a girl you want to marry the correct girl, not some "just as good" that happens to be the lowest hanging fruit available.

And yes, stock bilstein was crap for my ***. That's why it went off at 500 miles on the clock.
but anyways, throw whatever yall like on your truck. not my junk to worry about anyways.

regarding me being harsh... if you know me in person, you will find I am even more harsh when it comes to building trucks correctly with my friends. I actually tell my friends to find another shop to install their questionable parts because I don't want to touch them. When they don't listen and run into problems, I always respond with "I told you so" and laugh about it before I fix their ****. Some people just need to learn the hard way.

anyways, happy 4th.
 
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H2OMAN

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I myself was very disappointed when I realized that 99% of guys that buy Rebels or the ORP never use the trucks for what they were intended. But I get it. They just don't. So, if the truck isn't going to be used for that then it makes sense that not spending 5K on a suspension is the way to go. A simple puck and maybe some UCA's are all that is needed to get a level. If you should decide to take it off road YOU ARE going to do damage eventually. At that point then you should consider the appropriate off road suspension. Until then, enjoy your leveled rig and have fun doing what you do. You do not exist for my approval.
 
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Acdeals187

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I have 19 Rebel with 4 corner air suspension. I did put 18 inch Fuel Rebels with 35x12.5r18 Nitto Grapplers. Ended up doing the front mud flap trim and have no rubbing or scrubbing at the full lock. No suspension modifications either.
Downside, your speedometer will be thrown off (showing about 3mph slower than the actual speed), so you will need to get a calibrator tool to fix that.

IMG_2060.jpeg
 

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danend

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I have 19 Rebel with 4 corner air suspension. I did put 18 inch Fuel Rebels with 35x12.5r18 Nitto Grapplers. Ended up doing the front mud flap trim and have no rubbing or scrubbing at the full lock. No suspension modifications either.
Downside, your speedometer will be thrown off (showing about 3mph slower than the actual speed), so you will need to get a calibrator tool to fix that.

View attachment 162960
That looks great! I'm looking at doing the same to my '19 Rebel with Air Suspension.

Do those wheels have the same offset as stock?
 

mrclortho

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My experience with two 1500's. coming from a guy that wheels his Jeeps.

I added 2.5" front and 1" rear spring spacers to my '14 1500 and 35's and the ball joints lasted about 20k miles before starting to separate. The dealer somehow replaced them under warranty, and I drove it another 10k miles before trading it for a Wrangler. This was not a good plan.

I installed a Readylift 3.5" spacer lift on my '23 1500 and it came with heavy duty UCA's. It rides like stock and there were no issues with alignment. 35's will go on in a couple of weeks. So far so good.

I get it though. On my Jeeps, I don't use spacer lifts because I use them for real off-roading. I am running a full Clayton Overland lift on my Gladiator and would not skimp out of suspension components. On the Ram, it is a tow pig / work truck that will not see more off-road action other than dirt country roads, beach and occasional deer lease nasty spots. It did not make financial sense for me to go with a full spring and shock lift and so far, I am happy with how the truck drives and performs for what I use it for. Will I get burned? Maybe.
 

Mattiusmaximus1216

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I’m running 35s. No spacers. I swapped out the suspension for 6112s and changed the UCAs. No running whatsoever
 

Acdeals187

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That looks great! I'm looking at doing the same to my '19 Rebel with Air Suspension.

Do those wheels have the same offset as stock?
No, these are -18 offset. So even with rebel fender flares they stick out about an inch
 

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