2026 HEMI or Hurricane?

[NorskieRider]

Its happening to one GM engine in the trucks, not all of them.

The 6.2L suffers from manufacturing defects. Both 5.3 and 6.2 have DFM failures. The 3.0L Duramax has thrust bearing issues.
It seems the 2.7L TurboMax is the reliable choice in the GM 1/2T segment.

The HEMI might be "uncompetitive" but that doesn't mean it isn't capable. But I agree, it doesn't stand head-and-shoulders above the other v8 offerings in this segment. If the HEMI were available without the ET then it would, at least in terms of reliability, be a better choice than it is.

In my opinion (and yes, I did put my money where my mouth is) the Hurricane drivetrain does stand above the other 1/2T offerings. I would rate Ford's latest iteration of the 3.5 EB a close second, mainly hampered by the transmission and not being an I6.

What a fun discussion! I have friends with GM and Ford products. The guy with the 2008 Silverado says we all paid too much for our trucks, the F150 guy always buys F150s, the F350 guy with a Godzilla tells us to go home and play with our little toys.

 

[BowDown]

The 6.2L suffers from manufacturing defects. Both 5.3 and 6.2 have DFM failures. The 3.0L Duramax has thrust bearing issues.
It seems the 2.7L TurboMax is the reliable choice in the GM 1/2T segment.

The HEMI might be "uncompetitive" but that doesn't mean it isn't capable. But I agree, it doesn't stand head-and-shoulders above the other v8 offerings in this segment. If the HEMI were available without the ET then it would, at least in terms of reliability, be a better choice than it is.

In my opinion (and yes, I did put my money where my mouth is) the Hurricane drivetrain does stand above the other 1/2T offerings. I would rate Ford's latest iteration of the 3.5 EB a close second, mainly hampered by the transmission and not being an I6.

What a fun discussion! I have friends with GM and Ford products. The guy with the 2008 Silverado says we all paid too much for our trucks, the F150 guy always buys F150s, the F350 guy with a Godzilla tells us to go home and play with our little toys.

The 6.2 is the only engine coming apart.
Dfm failures, the lifter failures are occurring in HEMIs too if you read post here.

GM engines as a whole seem to be solid but they are also innovating and not relying on a 23-year-old platform, that's why GM engines make more power get better fuel mileage than the HEMI, constant improvement.
That's my biggest gripe about Dodge /Ram, very slow to innovate or to make changes for improvement and it's been that way since the 70s

 

[CalvinC]

I’m very interested in the next generation of GM V8’s. And of course the LS generation is worthy of its reputation - a game changer in It’s day, and I’d be happy still to own one today.

But I would not touch any LT generation GM engine even if they gave me the truck for free. Maybe in a vette. Just a massive swing & miss unfortunately.

I’m not brand loyal, I’ve cycled through ford, Chevy and (Dodge) Ram trucks in that reverse order most recently. I’m open to whatever is most appealing at whatever time I want something new.

A powerboost type n/a V8 in the 5.7 liter displacement arena with both port and direct injection sounds very appealing. IF it doesn’t implode on the regular.

That they couldn’t PowerBoost-ify eTorque with this resurrection was a huge missed opportunity. I know it wouldn’t have been cost free and may have delayed the return of Hemi, but it would have been SOMETHING innovative Ram could have pointed to for the Hemi.

It already has 90% of the componentry, and therefore complexity, of a PowerBoost. But you still can’t draw AC power from the battery that is roughly the same capacity, and the traction motor cannot motivate the vehicle any further than an allergen half a wheel turn. If they could have integrated a motor into the ZF, like all the Germans have now done with that same transmission, it would have been SOMETHING!

You know a hybrid Hurricane is coming with the same ZF so perhaps they didn’t want to pre-cannabilize sales. But intentionally withholding innovation is seldom a winning strategy in the market.

 

[silver billet]

A powerboost type n/a V8 in the 5.7 liter displacement arena with both port and direct injection sounds very appealing. IF it doesn’t implode on the regular.

Honestly I'd prefer the REV setup. No need to have a parallel hybrid, just go series hybrid and avoid the transmission, transfer case, drive axle etc.

Not surprisingly, the powerboost is Fords least reliable powertrain, by far.

 

[Ramintime]

It's not smart of Ram. The current Hemi design is obsolete by today's standards. If Dodge/Ram want to stay competitive, they need to do more than just offer a supercharger for more horsepower. Thebo my thing going for the Hemi is name recognition.

We can agree to disagree here. Its reputation for the Hemi..not recognition. The Hemi doesnt need more power from a SS unless you want a race truck.

 

[Ramintime]

Its happening to one GM engine in the trucks, not all of them. There's no joy in making one update to the HEMI in 23 years and the excuse of it won't blow up is just that. There's numerous changes they could have made that would have improved the HEMI and kept it competitive; DI, increase the cubic inches, streamline the intake manifold but instead, dodge did nothing.

The only thing selling Ram trucks since 2019 is that the styling, transmission and suspension was and is superior to both GM and Ford. We accepted the weak uncompetitive HEMI because we had to, not because it was superior; I know I did.

I do agree that Ram could've added some design improvements to the Hemi for sure. But in regards to GM...if its not the engine, its the transmission or software issues (worse than newer Rams)...every.single.GM vehicle. And to be clear...I'm not brand loyal. I had a Ecoboost F150 that was a fantastic running truck.

 

[NorskieRider]

The 6.2 is the only engine coming apart.
Dfm failures, the lifter failures are occurring in HEMIs too if you read post here.

Didn't they (at least attempt to) fix that recently with larger needle bearings in the lifters?

But I would not touch any LT generation GM engine even if they gave me the truck for free. Maybe in a vette. Just a massive swing & miss unfortunately.

95k and counting on my '14 C7 LT1. It's a fantastic engine when mated to a manual, as it avoids the AFM and thrust bearing problems.

 

[BowDown]

I do agree that Ram could've added some design improvements to the Hemi for sure. But in regards to GM...if its not the engine, its the transmission or software issues (worse than newer Rams)...every.single.GM vehicle. And to be clear...I'm not brand loyal. I had a Ecoboost F150 that was a fantastic running truck.

I'm not saying that GM is better. only that they try to improve and continue to innovate it powertrains wheras Dodge/Ram does little in that regard

 

[BowDown]

Didn't they (at least attempt to) fix that recently with larger needle bearings in the lifters?



95k and counting on my '14 C7 LT1. It's a fantastic engine when mated to a manual, as it avoids the AFM and thrust bearing problems.

Yes in regard to the lifters.

I agree on the LT engines. The 6.2 L87 is the variant having issues, the rest of the LT lineup is solid

 

[HSKR R/T]

We can agree to disagree here. Its reputation for the Hemi..not recognition. The Hemi doesnt need more power from a SS unless you want a race truck.

Had Dodge not used the Hemi name, nobody would care as much. They did a great job of marketing the Hemi and got people buzzing about it. People want to be able to answer the question of, "that thing got a Hemi" with a resounding yes. People are on clinging to it because of the name and recognition. It's current "reputation" is the least powerful V8 offering of the big 3. And yes, having the most powerful engine in a truck is a serious selling point. Has nothing to do with wanting a race truck.

 

[Ramintime]

Had Dodge not used the Hemi name, nobody would care as much. They did a great job of marketing the Hemi and got people buzzing about it. People want to be able to answer the question of, "that thing got a Hemi" with a resounding yes. People are on clinging to it because of the name and recognition. It's current "reputation" is the least powerful V8 offering of the big 3. And yes, having the most powerful engine in a truck is a serious selling point. Has nothing to do with wanting a race truck.

I think you need to go read up on modern V8 engines. The Hemi is not the least powerful of the big 3. Maybe if you're comparing it to a GM 6.2. Otherwise the Hemi power rating is on par with Fords 5.0, and is more powerful than GMs 5.3 Vortec. Even then...most normal people dont always choose the most powerful...they go for the most reliable, or at least somewhere in the middle between the two.

 

[BowDown]

I think you need to go read up on modern V8 engines. The Hemi is not the least powerful of the big 3. Maybe if you're comparing it to a GM 6.2. Otherwise the Hemi power rating is on par with Fords 5.0, and is more powerful than GMs 5.3 Vortec. Even then...most normal people dont always choose the most powerful...they go for the most reliable, or at least somewhere in the middle between the two.

It's also larger than the 5.3 and 5.0 (5.0 makes more power) while making similar power. It is indeed the least powerful of comparable sized engines. Up until the latest round of the L87 6.2, GM V8's have been reliable. I don't think the 5.0 has any real reliability issues either but even then, that's not enough justification for dodge to not modernize the engine.

That said, I still buy a Ram with the HEMI today over Ford and GM because of everything else in Ram is better and the HEMI was acceptable (which was the same in 2020 when I bought a Limited). This may well be the reason dodge hasn't bothered with updating the engine.

Even the truck 6.4 HEMI is junk, 410/429 from a 50ci increase, that's it? A detuned SRT 6.4 car version (for more low speed torque in a truck) would or should have been the obvious update but even that platform is old and tired. The HEMI needs new heads (smaller intake ports), DI and PI then it may have been worthwhile

 

[NorskieRider]

It's also larger than the 5.3 and 5.0 (5.0 makes more power) while making similar power. It is indeed the least powerful of comparable sized engines. Up until the latest round of the L87 6.2, GM V8's have been reliable. I don't think the 5.0 has any real reliability issues either but even then, that's not enough justification for dodge to not modernize the engine.

That said, I still buy a Ram with the HEMI today over Ford and GM because of everything else in Ram is better and the HEMI was acceptable (which was the same in 2020 when I bought a Limited). This may well be the reason dodge hasn't bothered with updating the engine.

Even the truck 6.4 HEMI is junk, 410/429 from a 50ci increase, that's it? A detuned SRT 6.4 car version (for more low speed torque in a truck) would or should have been the obvious update but even that platform is old and tired. The HEMI needs new heads (smaller intake ports), DI and PI then it may have been worthwhile

I would suggest that RAM hasn't bothering updating the HEMIs because they sell well regardless.

There are more considerations as well, such as where in the RPM range it makes torque, whether timing it retarded or power is 'de-rated' when the engine is work hard, etc. There are so many factors to consider when comparing engines.

In some YT video's (TFL I think ?) they compare the various trucks pulling heavy trailers on the "guantlet" through the EIsenhower tunnel in Colorado. I seem to recall that the 5.7 ran at a lower gear and higher RPM than the Hurricane. The 6.4L ran at a lower gear and RPM than the Hurricane, despite being down on torque. Another factor is how fast the engines can shed heat, and what they do to shed that heat ... the complaint with the 3.5L EB is that it retarding timing so wasn't able to actually sustain the advertised power.

I guess my point is that sometimes real world tests and experiences aren't reflected on the spec sheets.

 

[mikeru82]

I would suggest that RAM hasn't bothering updating the HEMIs because they sell well regardless.

My thinking is more along the lines of the Hemi hasn't been updated for such a long time because Europeans have been in charge of Ram since 2010. Europeans for the most part aren't fond of V8 engines in anything but high end luxury vehicles. They didn't want to throw away R&D money on an engine configuration they had no interest in pursuing.

 

[Ramintime]

It's also larger than the 5.3 and 5.0 (5.0 makes more power) while making similar power. It is indeed the least powerful of comparable sized engines. Up until the latest round of the L87 6.2, GM V8's have been reliable. I don't think the 5.0 has any real reliability issues either but even then, that's not enough justification for dodge to not modernize the engine.

That said, I still buy a Ram with the HEMI today over Ford and GM because of everything else in Ram is better and the HEMI was acceptable (which was the same in 2020 when I bought a Limited). This may well be the reason dodge hasn't bothered with updating the engine.

Even the truck 6.4 HEMI is junk, 410/429 from a 50ci increase, that's it? A detuned SRT 6.4 car version (for more low speed torque in a truck) would or should have been the obvious update but even that platform is old and tired. The HEMI needs new heads (smaller intake ports), DI and PI then it may have been worthwhile

Yea, I definitely agree there. The 6.4 is a dog. But I have heard that the 5.0 F150s are having issues with their cylinder deactivation, idk if thats something that can be turned off like MDS in a Ram. As far as the 5.7 being larger than the 5.3...a .4 litre displacement difference is negligible and doesn't really matter. You could say the same when comparing the 5.3 and the 5.0...yet the 5.3 has less overall power. Its all compression ratios really. The 5.7 also had a high compression and thats why it would smoke Pontiacs 6.0 G8 any day or the week. I know thats a little off topic, but kind of drives my point.

 

[Ramintime]

My thinking is more along the lines of the Hemi hasn't been updated for such a long time because Europeans have been in charge of Ram since 2010. Europeans for the most part aren't fond of V8 engines in anything but high end luxury vehicles. They didn't want to throw away R&D money on an engine configuration they had no interest in pursuing.

Yea, those Euros really like their V6 and turbo 4 engines for sure. But Stellantis themselves dont actually have any say in what DCJR builds or modifies for the USA market. They are a parent company that is heavily invested in the brands, but the most they'll do is implement certain cost cutting methods...and even then...the brands have to approve those methods. So not updating the Hemi could be their idea, but Ram most likely agreed with that. I'm an active investor of Stellantis, so we usually see certain articles that you cant find in places like "MotorTrend".

 

[BowDown]

Yea, I definitely agree there. The 6.4 is a dog. But I have heard that the 5.0 F150s are having issues with their cylinder deactivation, idk if thats something that can be turned off like MDS in a Ram. As far as the 5.7 being larger than the 5.3...a .4 litre displacement difference is negligible and doesn't really matter. You could say the same when comparing the 5.3 and the 5.0...yet the 5.3 has less overall power. Its all compression ratios really. The 5.7 also had a high compression and thats why it would smoke Pontiacs 6.0 G8 any day or the week. I know thats a little off topic, but kind of drives my point.

5.3 to 5.7 isnt neglible. The 5.3 is 325 ci and the 5.7 is 345 (the 5.0 302ci), thats 20 cubic inches (significant) and does make a difference in power.
The 5.0 makes more power and more average power due to the heads and DOHC's. The GM 6.0 is a dog too, thats why it had such a short run 6.2 and 6.4 are far better engines

 

[Ramintime]

5.3 to 5.7 isnt neglible. The 5.3 is 325 ci and the 5.7 is 345 (the 5.0 302ci), thats 20 cubic inches (significant) and does make a difference in power.
The 5.0 makes more power and more average power due to the heads and DOHC's. The GM 6.0 is a dog too, thats why it had such a short run 6.2 and 6.4 are far better engines

I personally dont think 20 cubic inches is significant in regards power generation (size is a different story)...especially when we talk about the 302 making more power than a 5.3 or the same as the 5.7.

 

[BowDown]

I personally dont think 20 cubic inches is significant in regards power generation (size is a different story)...especially when we talk about the 302 making more power than a 5.3 or the same as the 5.7.

You cant really compare the 302 coyote to the 5.7 or the 5.3 because of the head configuration, a more valid comparison would be the old pushrod 302. 20 cubic
The LS3 is a 6.2L (376 cu in) 430hp and 428tq
GM's 6.0 (364 ci) was 360 hp, LS3 is 22" larger with 70 more hp.

Ram could have increased the cubic inches, added DI, and reduced the head port size and had a modern HEMI cheaper than a completley new redesign but like I said earlier, theyre selling trucks without out it so no incentive; it doesnt seem that they cared about having the best preforming NA engine

 

[silver billet]

Yea, I definitely agree there. The 6.4 is a dog.

Say what? 485 hp is a dog these days?