Does the entire WD Hitch count against capacity

[DeanKing]

I am one of those people who didn't understand capacity when I bought my truck. I got so many nifty options, my payload is down to 1240 and I am now trying to get every bit I can figuring out what I can get for a trailer. I would also ask that you don't respond saying "don't worry about it" which seems to be a common Internet and RV salesperson response. I will not exceed the engineering or legal limits of the vehicle.
I have noticed that people count the weight of the hitch against their capacity. I understand that at least some of it should be counted but since it is attached to to the trailer as well, is the entire weight of the hitch counted against truck capacity?

 

[Zeronet]

I am one of those people who didn't understand capacity when I bought my truck. I got so many nifty options, my payload is down to 1240 and I am now trying to get every bit I can figuring out what I can get for a trailer. I would also ask that you don't respond saying "don't worry about it" which seems to be a common Internet and RV salesperson response. I will not exceed the engineering or legal limits of the vehicle.
I have noticed that people count the weight of the hitch against their capacity. I understand that at least some of it should be counted but since it is attached to to the trailer as well, is the entire weight of the hitch counted against truck capacity?

The entire weight of a weight distributing hitch should be counted as tongue weigh (weight capacity of the hitch itself). Shouldn’t be a problem for the class 4 hitch factory installed on many of these trucks.

Once hitched, a weight distribution hitch should help increase capacity of the truck by distributing the tongue weight of the trailer and hitch weight to the front axle of the truck and to the axles of the trailer.

It would help to know a bit more about what you are planning to tow and how much cargo/passengers you plan to carry while towing.

I like to use the ajdesigner.com weight distribution calculator to help determine what will be safe. Once you take some measurements and input all the parameters it will provide a lot of information.

 

[DeanKing]

The entire weight of a weight distributing hitch should be counted as tongue weigh (weight capacity of the hitch itself). Shouldn’t be a problem for the class 4 hitch factory installed on many of these trucks.

Once hitched, a weight distribution hitch should help increase capacity of the truck by distributing the tongue weight of the trailer and hitch weight to the front axle of the truck and to the axles of the trailer.

It would help to know a bit more about what you are planning to tow and how much cargo/passengers you plan to carry while towing.

I like to use the ajdesigner.com weight distribution calculator to help determine what will be safe. Once you take some measurements and input all the parameters it will provide a lot of information.

Thank you. From starting to read the posts on this Towing sub-forum, you seem to know this topic well. Your comment that a WD hitch distributes some of the trailer weight back to the axles of the trailer is the biggest controversy on this topic. I have seen information that says that means that it then reduces the tongue weight on the tow vehicle and other information that says it does not.

I want to tow a travel trailer. I start with 1240 Payload. I have to assume that is already down to 1140 based on my bed cover and bed rug. I think my passengers and truck cargo will likely be 450. That leaves me around 700. Most of the trailers I have been looking at are between 500 - 700 lbs dry tongue weight. So one on the high side won't work cause I am going to put stuff in the trailer. Now I am starting to wonder exactly how much the hitch will take away from my truck's overall capacity. If I find myself getting down to around 500, I may have just bought an unusable truck. Even a dry tongue weight of 600 lb is not leaving me a lot of room. I can't exactly load all the trailer cargo into the back cause that will screw up the balance and recommended tongue weight percentage. This is coming down to a margin of 10s of pounds, not 100s. I may also unbolt my skid plates because if that can give me 100lbs more cargo that may cover the hitch weight. I am really looking for the silver bullet here. If a WD hitch really does reduce the trailer tongue weight, that could be it.

 

[Gondul]

Direct link...

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php

 

[Zeronet]

Direct link...

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php

I find that calculator to be very accurate. After taking the measurements form my truck/trailer and inputting into the calculator, I find the results are all within 20lbs of actual scale weights I have taken in the past.

 

[Zeronet]

Thank you. From starting to read the posts on this Towing sub-forum, you seem to know this topic well. Your comment that a WD hitch distributes some of the trailer weight back to the axles of the trailer is the biggest controversy on this topic. I have seen information that says that means that it then reduces the tongue weight on the tow vehicle and other information that says it does not.

I want to tow a travel trailer. I start with 1240 Payload. I have to assume that is already down to 1140 based on my bed cover and bed rug. I think my passengers and truck cargo will likely be 450. That leaves me around 700. Most of the trailers I have been looking at are between 500 - 700 lbs dry tongue weight. So one on the high side won't work cause I am going to put stuff in the trailer. Now I am starting to wonder exactly how much the hitch will take away from my truck's overall capacity. If I find myself getting down to around 500, I may have just bought an unusable truck. Even a dry tongue weight of 600 lb is not leaving me a lot of room. I can't exactly load all the trailer cargo into the back cause that will screw up the balance and recommended tongue weight percentage. This is coming down to a margin of 10s of pounds, not 100s. I may also unbolt my skid plates because if that can give me 100lbs more cargo that may cover the hitch weight. I am really looking for the silver bullet here. If a WD hitch really does reduce the trailer tongue weight, that could be it.

A good weight distribution hitch will definitely transfer some weight to the trailer axles. In my case it transfers 150lbs to the trailer with 1000lb bars on my Blu Ox Sway Pro. With 1500lb bars it transfers 220lbs to the trailer axles.

Now I will warn you that the advertised tongue weights for trailers are very optimistic. My trailer for instance is a tongue heavy model with 658 advertised tongue weight. The actual tongue weight, ready/loaded for camping, 840 measured with a ShureLine scale at the coupler. Plus the weight of the Blue Ox WD hitch at 80 gives 920 tongue weight. BUT 220 of that 920 goes back to the trailer axles if I use the 1500lb WD bars. So net, the truck gets hit with 700lbs of payload.

Again this is just an example and your choice of trailer may allow for more cargo to be placed above or just behind the trailer axles to give a more favorable tongue weight. Mine does not.

Check out that weight distribution calculator and play with the numbers. See what works and what doesn’t. Especially helpful after you get your truck weighed so you have some good numbers to input.

 

[DeanKing]

Direct link...

https://www.ajdesigner.com/apptrailertow/weightdistributionhitch.php

Thank you. This was very helpful. Per this, even though the WD Hitch does distribute the weight more evenly to solve per axle limits, the entire tongue weight of the trailer still counts against the tow vehicle gross weight. aka, no silver bullet for me. But this did help me realize I need a 2000 lb weight distributing hitch. Still not sure about my original question. The calculator seems to suggest there is NO weight added by the hitch which seems kind of odd. But it does say to input your tow vehicle GVW so perhaps it is expecting me to include the hitch in that.

 

[slimchance]

i do not think the WD hitch is taking any "tongue weight " off your payload for the truck .. you need to follow this YouTube link and view the video .. then download his spreadsheet and play with the numbers for YOUR truck ... it will help answer your questions ....

 

[slimchance]

i checked "the spreadsheet" and using your 1240 payload and a 700# tongue weight i believe you are 210#s over weight for MY Laramie 2019 ... so any added tongue weight will also increase your OVERWEIGHT

 

[Zeronet]

Tongue weight is what it is and the weight of the WD hitch should be included in that weight. However if you are asked to cross the scales they will look at the weight of the truck and the weight of the trailer. Then compare those to the GVWR stickers for truck and trailer.

The weight transferred from the truck to the trailer axles by the WD hitch could make the difference between being under weight or overweight on the scales.

I have modified my posts to clarify.

 

[djeazie]

A good weight distribution hitch will definitely transfer some weight to the trailer axles. In my case it transfers 150lbs to the trailer with 1000lb bars on my Blu Ox Sway Pro. With 1500lb bars it transfers 220lbs to the trailer axles.

Now I will warn you that the advertised tongue weights for trailers are very optimistic. My trailer for instance is a tongue heavy model with 658 advertised tongue weight. The actual tongue weight, ready/loaded for camping, 840 measured with a ShureLine scale at the coupler. Plus the weight of the Blue Ox WD hitch at 80 gives 920 tongue weight. BUT 220 of that 920 goes back to the trailer axles if I use the 1500lb WD bars. So net, the truck gets hit with 700lbs of payload.

Again this is just an example and your choice of trailer may allow for more cargo to be placed above or just behind the trailer axles to give a more favorable tongue weight. Mine does not.

Check out that weight distribution calculator and play with the numbers. See what works and what doesn’t. Especially helpful after you get your truck weighed so you have some good numbers to input.

I have a Blue Ox also and have the 1000lb bars. With a very toungue heavy travel trailer. I know it's gotta be pushing the limits of those 1k bars. Once you stepped up to the 1500lb bars did you notice a difference?


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[Zeronet]

I have a Blue Ox also and have the 1000lb bars. With a very toungue heavy travel trailer. I know it's gotta be pushing the limits of those 1k bars. Once you stepped up to the 1500lb bars did you notice a difference?


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If your 1000 bars are pointed up (beyond perfectly level with the trailer frame) at the very tip then you are probably at the limit of those bars. That was my situation. 3-1/2 links showing below the brackets is recommended by the manufacturer. I had to go 2-1/2 links showing to transfer enough weight to the front axles. So to me it needed more tension than the 1000s would provide comfortably. Towed that way for 7500 miles so it got the job done.

Recently I upgraded to 1500 bars and can now get the weight transferred with the recommended 3-1/2 links showing. Also the tips of the bars are nearly level with the trailer frame, maybe pointed down slightly. As a side benefit it transfers about 90lbs more to the front axle and reduces rear axle load that could previously be close to GAWR when loaded for a long trip. Also less porpoising when going over dips in the road. I prefer the ride with the 1500 bars. Easier to hitch/unhitch as well since the bars don’t flex as much.

 

[djeazie]

If your 1000 bars are pointed up (beyond perfectly level with the trailer frame) at the very tip then you are probably at the limit of those bars. That was my situation. 3-1/2 links showing below the brackets is recommended by the manufacturer. I had to go 2-1/2 links showing to transfer enough weight to the front axles. So to me it needed more tension than the 1000s would provide comfortably. Towed that way for 7500 miles so it got the job done.

Recently I upgraded to 1500 bars and can now get the weight transferred with the recommended 3-1/2 links showing. Also the tips of the bars are nearly level with the trailer frame, maybe pointed down slightly. As a side benefit it transfers about 90lbs more to the front axle and reduces rear axle load that could previously be close to GAWR when loaded for a long trip. Also less porpoising when going over dips in the road. I prefer the ride with the 1500 bars. Easier to hitch/unhitch as well since the bars don’t flex as much.

Great thanks. Maybe I should try the bigger bars. Do you use airbags on your truck?

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[Zeronet]

Great thanks. Maybe I should try the bigger bars. Do you use airbags on your truck?

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I use Timbren helper springs. Bought them for their low cost, easy installation, simplicity, reliability, zero maintenance, no airing-up/airing down. Completely stock ride when unloaded. Zero squat when loaded but no adjustment to tailor the ride to your liking.

My other option would have been a quality set of airbags with on-board air compressor. Would have allowed for adjustment and probably better ride but needed on-board air for frequent airing-up/airing-down. When we’re touring (sometimes months at a time) we hitch/unhitch every few days and adjusting air pressure manually would just add more stuff to my check list.

All a matter of what works for your situation. You probably already have some kind of suspension enhancement if you’re close to 1000 tongue weight but thought I would give my opinion for those who are newer to this.

What are you using and how do you like it?

 

[DeanKing]

@Zeronet Your responses have been very helpful to get me to think about this a different way. Hopefully it is the right way. The tongue weight on the hitch isn't really my concern. Yes, the hitch has a certain limit but I am not going to get anywhere near that. My concern is keeping the gross weight on my truck axles below the maximum. The WD hitch helps by taking some of the forward trailer weight which would otherwise sit on the hitch and shifting it backwards to the trailer axle. So, this has changed my criteria somewhat for a trailer. Now what I am looking for is something with a reasonable tongue weight BUT I also want something with a high CCC and a higher dry tongue to UVW percentage. My thinking is that if the trailer starts with an 11 - 12 % dry ratio, I can shift more weight back thereby reducing the GVWR of my truck. I can't shift too much weight back and still maintain the recommended minimum 10% ratio. Does that all sound right?

 

[Zeronet]

@Zeronet Your responses have been very helpful to get me to think about this a different way. Hopefully it is the right way. The tongue weight on the hitch isn't really my concern. Yes, the hitch has a certain limit but I am not going to get anywhere near that. My concern is keeping the gross weight on my truck axles below the maximum. The WD hitch helps by taking some of the forward trailer weight which would otherwise sit on the hitch and shifting it backwards to the trailer axle. So, this has changed my criteria somewhat for a trailer. Now what I am looking for is something with a reasonable tongue weight BUT I also want something with a high CCC and a higher dry tongue to UVW percentage. My thinking is that if the trailer starts with an 11 - 12 % dry ratio, I can shift more weight back thereby reducing the GVWR of my truck. I can't shift too much weight back and still maintain the recommended minimum 10% ratio. Does that all sound right?

Yes, I agee with with most of your train of thought. A couple of things I’d like to highlight.

Truck axle capacities - I would never exceed an axle’s GAWR. The front axle normally isn’t an issue. It’s the rear axle that’s the concern. A good quality WD hitch will help a lot here. I would get spring bars that are at least 20% higher capacity than your anticipated loaded tongue/hitch weight to allow some room for adjustment. Too stiff a bar will give a rough ride so keep that in mind also.

Trailer CCC - the trailer should have enough CCC and adequate axle ratings to carry your cargo as well as the weight transferred by the WD hitch. Many people don’t consider this, smart that you are. If you have the capacity, in a pinch you could even load some water in your rearmost tank (usually sewer tank) to use as ballast to further reduce tongue weight.

Tongue weight - having too little tongue weight is rarely a problem with a loaded travel trailer. There’s usually plenty of opportunity to add weight to the front of the trailer (think propane,batteries, camping gear in the pass through storage area). With your payload limitations I would look for the lowest tongue weight trailer that meets your camping needs. A lower dry tongue weight will give the best opportunity to avoid overloading your truck. I’d also look for a trailer that has good storage opportunities above and a few feet behind the axles. This will provide flexibility in loading cargo to meet your weight balance needs. My experience, it’s a challenge to keep tongue weight down. In my case 13.2% when loaded but like I said my model is tongue heavy to start with at 12.7% dry.

It’s good that you’re thinking about all these things before buying the trailer. The RV salesperson definitely won’t know what your trucks capabilities are. Since you’re doing your homework you can make an educated purchase decision. Just don’t let all this technical stuff drive you crazy. We had a great time shopping for our camper even though we did have to make some compromises. Now we’re thoroughly enjoying it.

 

[djeazie]

I use Timbren helper springs. Bought them for their low cost, easy installation, simplicity, reliability, zero maintenance, no airing-up/airing down. Completely stock ride when unloaded. Zero squat when loaded but no adjustment to tailor the ride to your liking.

My other option would have been a quality set of airbags with on-board air compressor. Would have allowed for adjustment and probably better ride but needed on-board air for frequent airing-up/airing-down. When we’re touring (sometimes months at a time) we hitch/unhitch every few days and adjusting air pressure manually would just add more stuff to my check list.

All a matter of what works for your situation. You probably already have some kind of suspension enhancement if you’re close to 1000 tongue weight but thought I would give my opinion for those who are newer to this.

What are you using and how do you like it?

Just bought the truck and haven't towed with it yet. But on my 4th gen I had Airlift 1000 bags. They performed pretty well. But plan to go with Timbergrove bags on this truck. Larger capacity and you don't have to cut the bump stops. Truck is a lease so don't want to do any cutting.

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[trainman]

Danny, one thing is you never gave us that the tongue weight of the trailer is and the weight of the trailer. Many like myself who have pulled travel trailers for years can just about look at what you are trying to do and knowing the trucks GVWR, etc. can pretty much tell what needs to be done and what works for your particular vehicle. When you said that you may have purchased the wrong truck that is not setup for towing your trailer I feel you could not be taking everything into account as the description of your new Ram looks capable of towing more that you think with the right trailer and WDH setup. Remember the Blu-Ox WDH with either the 1000 or 1500 can determine how the vehicle and trailer handle on the road, it's about leveling the two and how they ride together is what you want the WDH to do, don't always look at it as a weight thing.

trainman

 

[Stumblefoot]

My experience, it’s a challenge to keep tongue weight down. In my case 13.2% when loaded but like I said my model is tongue heavy to start with at 12.7% dry.

Are you referring to your trailer's dry hitch weight relative to its UVW? For example the TT (Grand Design 315RLTS) we just ordered has a dry hitch weight of 1,065 and a UVW of 8,994 for a % TW of 11.8%.

The trailer's GVWR is 10,995 and I've read where A LOT of folks have a hitch weight between 1,600 - 1,700 when fully loaded bringing the TW up to 14.6% - 15.5% if they are at the max GVWR. For a conventionally hitched TT, those tongue weights seem exceptionally high.

I've started building a tow vehicle capability spreadsheet this afternoon to ensure a 2019 2500 Limited will meet our needs. I have a sneaking suspicion it will, but only if we don't carry any water or cargo which defeats the purpose of boondocking.

 

[slimchance]

i have NOT been to a campground since 1988 .. we boondock ... look at my signature below for "my truck" ... our current TT is a 2018 Keystone Passport 2520RL ... the Loaded TT wight is 7500#s ... at 10% that makes the tongue weight approx 750 #s .. "my trks" payload is 1577 #s ... leaving a net payload 827 #s ... when we started our search for both the "wife's trk" and "my trk" we had a list of options that we HAD to have and then things that it would be nice to have ... we were both trading Tundra TRD Limiteds ... searched dealer websites for options and colors and then went to dealers lots and started opening doors and checking "payload" stickers ... the salesmen thought we were NUTS .. you see years ago i worked at a blacktop mfg plant and i saw trucks brought to the scales for probable overweight and it is not pretty ... weight cops just do not write out a ticket when they find you are overweight, you have to reduce the weight to be legal BEFORE you move the truck, and in the case of gross overload they also had to pay the fine before they could move ... we sometimes had illegal trucks on our lot for weeks ... back to the trks, the more options you get on any trk the less payload you have and that payload does NOT change when you replace the tires with LT tires or install air bags to level the ride ... that payload sticker remains "THE PAYLOAD" for that truck till the day it is junked