What Is Ram’s Upcoming Range Electric Paradigm Breaker (REPB) Pickup?

[redriderbob]

What Is Ram’s Upcoming Range Electric Paradigm Breaker (REPB) Pickup?​

Ram CEO Interview With Autoblog Sheds Some Light On Upcoming Propulsion System...​

Since Stellantis’ EV Day 2021 presentation, the Ram brand has been pushing around a new electrified term that not many people have understood – Range Electric Paradigm Breaker (REPB). But thanks to the automotive online publication Autoblog and an interview with Ram CEO Mike Koval Jr., at the Chicago Auto Show, we are truly understanding what REPB will mean for the Ram Truck brand.

What Is Ram's Upcoming Range Electric Paradigm Breaker (REPB) Pickup?

Since Stellantis' EV Day 2021 presentation, the Ram brand has been pushing around a new electrified term that not many people have understood - Range Electric Paradigm Breaker (REPB). But thanks to the automotive online publication Autoblog and an interview with Ram CEO Mike Koval Jr., at the...

5thgenrams.com

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Probably more like bank account breaker.

 

[habu987]

What I'd like to see is a PHEV with a dual electric motor setup with power output somewhere in the general vicinity of 400hp/500tq (or more!), a ~40kWh battery, and a sufficiently powerful ICE generator to keep the battery at least at a constant level under any load.

That would allow a decent all-electric range when running unloaded, all the power benefits of an EV drivetrain, and none of the range anxiety of an EV drivetrain.

 

[c3k]

Without the coercion of the federal government, none of this would even be happening. The technology is not there and the market knows it.

My truck can go 700+ miles and only take 10 minutes (or less) to regain that full range. I can run the air conditioner at max cold for that entire time. If I tow, I only lose a little range (obviously depending on size and weight).

Other than the remote pollution that electric vehicles produce. Coal fired plants are a thing...and as clean as they are, they are dirtier than modern ICE.

So, ignoring the increased pollution (albeit at a remote location) that electric vehicles produce, they have abysmal real-life range. They have abysmal recharge rates. They have abysmal recycling potential.

I'm sure, eventually, there will be good EVs. I'm not going to hold my breath.

 

[SpeedyV]

Without the coercion of the federal government, none of this would even be happening. The technology is not there and the market knows it.

My truck can go 700+ miles and only take 10 minutes (or less) to regain that full range. I can run the air conditioner at max cold for that entire time. If I tow, I only lose a little range (obviously depending on size and weight).

Other than the remote pollution that electric vehicles produce. Coal fired plants are a thing...and as clean as they are, they are dirtier than modern ICE.

So, ignoring the increased pollution (albeit at a remote location) that electric vehicles produce, they have abysmal real-life range. They have abysmal recharge rates. They have abysmal recycling potential.

I'm sure, eventually, there will be good EVs. I'm not going to hold my breath.

Ram’s idea here is interesting in that it results in a vehicle with more torque, similar range, far less expensive fill-ups, and potentially far less maintenance (depending on battery lifetime) than you have now.

Stellantis is targeting 500 miles range right now. Let’s say that’s 250 towing if nothing changes. But you have an onboard generator that can extend that towing range on much less fuel than our current trucks. So the new EV will almost certainly match or beat your unloaded range…and then likely fill up (the small gas tank) for a lot less money than you’re spending at the pump. Granted, charging the thing (if available) for full range would still take 25 minutes…there’s no denying that. So on long road trips, especially towing, you’d be more likely to exercise the generator a lot (and see less of an advantage in economy as a result). In town, charging a bit at night, you’d need to use Sta-bil…you’d almost never need to add fuel.

Why haven’t they offered this before? Probably because it’s just easier, less risky, and profitable enough to iterate on tried and true formulas.

Most of this tech is 10+ years old, with the exception of rapidly-improving batteries. Just last week, I read about a breakthrough in cathodes that makes lithium-sulphur batteries realistic (3x the capacity of lithium-ion, faster charging, capable of 4K+ charges, more eco-friendly).

The claim that EVs are dirtier over their lifetime has been proven false in multiple international studies. However, they ARE (almost) always less environmentally friendly to manufacture, particularly due to the manufacturing of (most) batteries. The break-even point between the carbon impact of EVs and ICE-powered vehicles can vary between a year in the Nordics (where most energy is renewable) to 10 years in China (where it is not). Inn the US, it could take 2+ years for an EV to balance out with an ICE-powered vehicle. Over its lifetime, an EV can be much “greener”. Still, as you point out, the recyclability of batteries (and of vehicles in general) needs to be improved.

I’m bullish on this tech, but I’m going to enjoy my current truck until an automaker nails the EV / PHEV / REPB formula.

 

[IvoryHemi]

Cost seems like it will be a problem for a 500-mile battery though.

It costs $10,000 to go from the F-150’s standard 230 mi battery to 300 miles.

 

[SpeedyV]

Cost seems like it will be a problem for a 500-mile battery though.

It costs $10,000 to go from the F-150’s standard 230 mi battery to 300 miles.

I first saw an 88” LG Signature Series 8K OLED TV in Tokyo in December 2019. I remember it well, as there is just nothing like it (with an 8K source).

It was also a jaw-dropping $80K at the time. Here we are, a little over two years later, and the same (still unbeatable) TV is now $30K. In other words…still very expensive, but rapidly falling in price as mass production and adoption begin.

I imagine we’ll see the same curve with battery tech. Much like TVs, computers, etc. The question, it seems, is “when” (not “if”) it’ll get to that point.

 

[habu987]

Cost seems like it will be a problem for a 500-mile battery though.

It costs $10,000 to go from the F-150’s standard 230 mi battery to 300 miles.

I have no idea what the full EV battery specs would be, but I'd imagine the REPB would have a much smaller battery, somewhere in the ~40-50kWh range, maybe even smaller, depending on how much EV-only range they want to get out of it vs EV + generator range.

 

[SpeedyV]

I have no idea what the full EV battery specs would be, but I'd imagine the REPB would have a much smaller battery, somewhere in the ~40-50kWh range, maybe even smaller, depending on how much EV-only range they want to get out of it vs EV + generator range.

Maybe I've misunderstood. I wouldn't want to see "next-gen eTorque". I'd want to see hundreds of miles of EV-only range before the generator kicks in. And I'd want it to be a true generator, i.e. zero mechanical connection to the driveline. Maybe I'm just dreaming

 

[SD Rebel]

Range extenders haven't done well in previous applications, but who knows, maybe they got something special here. Can't wait to see what it is.

In the short term, I am hoping that for 2023, for the 1500 line, that will include a mid-cycle refresh, the I6 Turbo as a replacement to the 5.7L Hemi, and a 6.4L Hemi as the next V8 motor.

 

[AV8OR]

 

[habu987]

Maybe I've misunderstood. I wouldn't want to see "next-gen eTorque". I'd want to see hundreds of miles of EV-only range before the generator kicks in. And I'd want it to be a true generator, i.e. zero mechanical connection to the driveline. Maybe I'm just dreaming

I don't see how Ram could really get away with slapping a (400ish?) lb generator on top of the full loadout of battery cells from the BEV without it being prohibitively heavy.

If you look at it as a PHEV with an electric focus (compared to the current 4xe ICE focus, or my current Sorento PHEV's ICE focus), and with the same electric engines as the full electric Ram, just with a smaller battery pack and ICE generator, then it makes sense. From my layman's perspective, I envision three use case scenarios for the REPB:

1. Electric only. Just like most current PHEVs, X amount of range that runs just on the battery without the ICE generator running. No clue what would be a good range, but maybe something like ~50 miles of unladen range.
2. Electric with ICE generator constantly charging. The generator would be running constantly to recharge the batteries under periods of high power usage, such as towing. If set up as a series hybrid, then the generator would not be attached to the drivetrain and would solely charge the batteries.
3. Electric with ICE generator coming on as needed. Once the battery dips below X percentage, then the generator comes on to charge it up to Y percentage, then kicks off. Still no connection to the drivetrain.

Going off what I saw from a commenter on an article on the topic on a different site, if his math is correct, then a ~130hp ICE motor would be sufficient to act as a generator to keep the batteries pumping their juice to the electric motors under any load.

Under this kind of operating model, as long as there is gas in the tank for the generator, you get full electric power with none of the range anxiety, albeit with somewhat of an efficiency hit compared to full EV-only.

This is all presuming Ram would have it set up as a series hybrid. If it's set up as a parallel hybrid, then blah, not interested.

 

[SpeedyV]

I don't see how Ram could really get away with slapping a (400ish?) lb generator on top of the full loadout of battery cells from the BEV without it being prohibitively heavy.

If you look at it as a PHEV with an electric focus (compared to the current 4xe ICE focus, or my current Sorento PHEV's ICE focus), and with the same electric engines as the full electric Ram, just with a smaller battery pack and ICE generator, then it makes sense. From my layman's perspective, I envision three use case scenarios for the REPB:

1. Electric only. Just like most current PHEVs, X amount of range that runs just on the battery without the ICE generator running. No clue what would be a good range, but maybe something like ~50 miles of unladen range.
2. Electric with ICE generator constantly charging. The generator would be running constantly to recharge the batteries under periods of high power usage, such as towing. If set up as a series hybrid, then the generator would not be attached to the drivetrain and would solely charge the batteries.
3. Electric with ICE generator coming on as needed. Once the battery dips below X percentage, then the generator comes on to charge it up to Y percentage, then kicks off. Still no connection to the drivetrain.

Going off what I saw from a commenter on an article on the topic on a different site, if his math is correct, then a ~130hp ICE motor would be sufficient to act as a generator to keep the batteries pumping their juice to the electric motors under any load.

Under this kind of operating model, as long as there is gas in the tank for the generator, you get full electric power with none of the range anxiety, albeit with somewhat of an efficiency hit compared to full EV-only.

This is all presuming Ram would have it set up as a series hybrid. If it's set up as a parallel hybrid, then blah, not interested.

First, love the debate on this. I *hope* they go for more than a standard PHEV configuration, or the result just won't be that interesting (aka your last statement about a parallel hybrid). Old news.

Weight may be less of a factor (i.e. it's okay to be heavier), as my understanding is that this is an entirely new chassis. Shoot...look at the weight of the Hummer EV. Nobody will care if it weighs as much as a tank if it performs (including hauling/towing).

Can't wait...

 

[bucolic]

When they get a range of 500 miles on an EV truck I am in. That's about all I want to drive in a day anymore when doing a trip and would be just right for me.

I want one simply for the fun! I am not being green or saving the planet. EV's are fun to drive in their own way. I can then park a nice V8 muscle car next to it and have the best of both worlds!

I had a first-gen Volt and it was pretty neat to drive but unfortunately, the charge only lasted 35 miles or so! 18 if you wanted to put in sport mode and have at it. My commute to work was 32 miles one way and they allowed me to charge at work. So for one whole summer, I never burned a drop of gas on the ICE engine in it. I had to drive 55-60 on the highway though and not run the AC or heat but I could make it to work on the charge and with 8 hours of charge at work make it back home. What a nut job I was!

So 500 miles of range is my go card!

 

[habu987]

First, love the debate on this. I *hope* they go for more than a standard PHEV configuration, or the result just won't be that interesting (aka your last statement about a parallel hybrid). Old news.

Weight may be less of a factor (i.e. it's okay to be heavier), as my understanding is that this is an entirely new chassis. Shoot...look at the weight of the Hummer EV. Nobody will care if it weighs as much as a tank if it performs (including hauling/towing).

Can't wait...

Yeah, if it's done well (BIG caveat there!), it would likely get me back into a truck. I don't care about the weight, as long as it has kickass power and range, the effective mpg on the generator is decent, and the payload is acceptable, I'm in if it doesn't break the bank.

I switched to my current Sorento solely because I needed the 3rd row, but that won't be an issue by the time these come out as '25 (?) trucks, so I'll likely be a prospective customer again.

 

[Ramit392]

View attachment 120573

As long as we all can buy CHEAP GASOLINE they can't get us to buy electric simple as that, so they will just keep raising gasoline until we yell uncle!

 

[c3k]

500 mile range, highway, while running the air conditioning, stereo (thumping bass ), charging and using various phones, and full highbeam.

300 mile range, city, with the above.

250, highway, towing, with the above.

And cheap electricity. (Did someone just say "nukes"?)

 

[Hammer75]

Wait til they start really jacking up the electric charges. People will be begging to go back to ICE trucks and cars. You know the rates are going to go sky high. Why isn't anyone talking about this. Not nearly enough capacity in this country to support electric vehicles and won't be for the foreseeable future.

 

[AngelPhoenix]

Wait til they start really jacking up the electric charges. People will be begging to go back to ICE trucks and cars. You know the rates are going to go sky high. Why isn't anyone talking about this. Not nearly enough capacity in this country to support electric vehicles and won't be for the foreseeable future.

I seriously think a lot of people believe that electricity is just magic and comes from turbines and generators powered by their own electricity that they haven't produced yet lol.

 

[SpeedyV]

Wait til they start really jacking up the electric charges. People will be begging to go back to ICE trucks and cars. You know the rates are going to go sky high. Why isn't anyone talking about this. Not nearly enough capacity in this country to support electric vehicles and won't be for the foreseeable future.

Chicken and egg problem. As demand increases, so will supply. It will take years and years to cycle hundreds of millions of ICE vehicles out of circulation.