Consumer Reports' Reliability rating for Ram 1500 - doesn't make sense

[JustMe]

Regarding the Park sense, I'd have to agree with just about everything that's been said. My 2019 is the first vehicle I've ever owned with the feature and when it triggers it startles the living hell out of me. That being said, with the exception of a couple of false triggers due to small snow banks, it has saved me three times so far. I did ask someone who has had a similar system on another make of car and they tell me theirs acts about the same.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030190 miles.

Similar snow bank issues trying to back out of my Apartment Garage . "They" have a tendency to pile up a lot of snow about 22ft. from the Door, so when I get "close," 1st the beeping and then if too close the brakes take over .
Oh, this is on my current 2016 grand Cherokee . Thankfully there is a Cancel Function button on the Center Console which is VERY Handy versus going into the screen functions . A MUST do (cancelling) when I have my boat trailer hooked up . CAN"T Back Up unless it is OFF . Some see this as Problematic, some annoying, but after the few Close calls I find it Well Worth the MINOR Inconvenience of having to push ONE Button . . .

 

[Dusty1948]

I should add the following for clarification (pulled from CR's explanations on reliability):

"Models that score a View attachment 48560 are not necessarily unreliable, but have a higher rate of problems than the average model. Similarly, models that score View attachment 48561 are not necessarily problem-free, but had relatively few problems compared with other models. Because problem rates in some trouble spots are very low, we do not assign a View attachment 48562 or a View attachment 48563 unless the model's problem rate exceeds 3 percent. If a problem rate is below 2 or 1 percent it will be assigned a View attachment 48564 or a View attachment 48565 respectively."

And here lies a major problem with CR. What score does a vehicle get when the problem rate is 2.99% versus 3.01%? Using this simplistic mathematical system, one vehicle would get a green dot and another an orange dot when the actual problem rate is just tenths or a hundredths of a percent different. Because of the visual method of conveying a difference, the reader may get a serious misconception of a vehicles reliability.

CR has intentionally designed a judgmental system. To them it doesn't matter how much worse a vehicle problem is if it's over 3%. Whether it's 3.01% or 10, or 20, or 50% (or worse), the vehicle will get the same judgement. This method is not helping people make informed or rational decisions. If one were looking at three different vehicles that were 150, 160, 170 problems per hundred respectively, but the one you liked the best was the one with 170 problems per hundred, would that affect your decision?

Another problem is that CR assigns colored dots based on the average of all vehicle years in their database at the time they issue their annual buyers guide. We all know from the JD Power Vehicle Reliability Study (VDS) that vehicle brands often have large swings in problems per hundred reported. So it may be possible that a model goes from one color dot to another while still having the same problems per 100 vehicle as the year before only because the average changed.

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030294 miles.

 

[Dusty1948]

"Why would anyone be surprised that RAMs predicted reliability is low?

I'm not surprised at all. Chrysler is notorious for unreliability throughout their entire existence. I knew that going in and I still bought my truck because I like it. "

For a certain subset of the population it is fact that "Chrysler is notorious for unreliability throughout their entire existence...," however the statement itself is not true.

CR's first issue to cover automobile 'reliability' listed the 1954 Dodge as the most reliable, and did so for the 1955 and 1956 models as well. Prior to WWII Chrysler had an enviable record as well, there just isn't any third party sources that document it. That changed with the introduction of the 1957 Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge and Plymouth models for a number of reasons: a shift to different body manufacturers, the introduction of torsion bar suspension, and radical design changes rushed into production. While addressed for the most part in the following year, the problems affected so many vehicles that it was ripe to establish a negative perception by Chrysler's competitors and their loyal following.

Chrysler's reliability rebounded in the sixties and by 1964 was good enough to offer standard 5 year 50,000 mile drivetrain warranty. Their competitors at the time did not follow until some years later. Their reliability was generally on par with, or better than their competitors until the introduction of the 1977 Aspen Volare, which seemed to be a repeat of 1957.

Regardless of the somewhat fluid way people define 'reliability,' Chrysler reliability in recent years has been up and down just like every other manufacturer. As a demonstration I've enclosed copies of the JD Power VDS from 2010 to 2020. Note that each VDS is based on the problems per hundred of three year old vehicles. (2020 is reporting on 2017 vehicles three years of service.)

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030294 miles.

 

[Dusty1948]

Since I can only attach 10 files at a time, here's 2020 JD Power VDS.

 

[go-ram]

"Why would anyone be surprised that RAMs predicted reliability is low?

I'm not surprised at all. Chrysler is notorious for unreliability throughout their entire existence. I knew that going in and I still bought my truck because I like it. "

For a certain subset of the population it is fact that "Chrysler is notorious for unreliability throughout their entire existence...," however the statement itself is not true.

CR's first issue to cover automobile 'reliability' listed the 1954 Dodge as the most reliable, and did so for the 1955 and 1956 models as well. Prior to WWII Chrysler had an enviable record as well, there just isn't any third party sources that document it. That changed with the introduction of the 1957 Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge and Plymouth models for a number of reasons: a shift to different body manufacturers, the introduction of torsion bar suspension, and radical design changes rushed into production. While addressed for the most part in the following year, the problems affected so many vehicles that it was ripe to establish a negative perception by Chrysler's competitors and their loyal following.

Chrysler's reliability rebounded in the sixties and by 1964 was good enough to offer standard 5 year 50,000 mile drivetrain warranty. Their competitors at the time did not follow until some years later. Their reliability was generally on par with, or better than their competitors until the introduction of the 1977 Aspen Volare, which seemed to be a repeat of 1957.

Regardless of the somewhat fluid way people define 'reliability,' Chrysler reliability in recent years has been up and down just like every other manufacturer. As a demonstration I've enclosed copies of the JD Power VDS from 2010 to 2020. Note that each VDS is based on the problems per hundred of three year old vehicles. (2020 is reporting on 2017 vehicles three years of service.)

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030294 miles.

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Thank you for taking the time to do all of this research and share it, it's great to know the real story.
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Those same people that have a negative view of "Chrysler products" from decades past should also peruse the historical articles (e.g Allpar.com) on how much Chrysler Corporation did to help in the war efforts (particularly WW-II), and also what Chrysler Corporation did to help make the Apollo moon-shot program so successful. Not to mention battle tanks (the M-1 Abrams in particular). Chrysler, like ALL companies, has on occasion made bad judgements and suffered the reputational damage for that, but as you said, EVERY company has some bad spots in their history.
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Yes, the US taxpayer co-signed Loans for Chrysler a couple of times over the years, BUT, each time Chrysler paid the loans off EARLY, and at a significant net profit to the US Treasury. And during WW-II, Chrysler always delivered their momentous contributions to the war effort on-time or early, and frequently (and voluntarily) Chrysler did it at their cost, refusing to take any profit whatsoever. Now THAT's corporate patriotism, something we should all acknowledge, appreciate, support, and emulate in our own lives. In my book, when a company has done as much for America as Chrysler has over the decades, they get a pass now and then when they stumble.
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Consumer Reports (CR) does provide a valuable service, but as you point out, it is over-simplified and there is a lot of detail that must be researched to get past the simplistic presentations that CR publishes. It's not just CR's fault - IMO the American public has chosen consciously to prefer "dumbed-down" info, to make easy, snap judgements, rather than put in the time to research and understand things thoroughly before making their individual decisions. I guess what I'm saying is that CR is a reflection of America on the whole.
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BTW, my new 2020 Laramie Longhorn has by far the best fit-and-finish of any vehicle I have ever owned in my life, including other Mopars, Chevy, Ford, Honda & Toyota.

 

[Jus Cruisin]

One, Consumer Reports is biased. I don't care what they claim....

Two, the J. D. Power "problems" aren't always necessarily problems. Many are created by consumers not being shown how to operate all of the "features" and bringing the vehicle into the dealership to fix something that really wasn't broken. They end up with a warranty claim for nothing. The owners still indicate they had to return to the dealership. Ford used to have the "problems" related to Sync that really wasn't broken.

 

[bigoldthor]

One, Consumer Reports is biased. I don't care what they claim....

Two, the J. D. Power "problems" aren't always necessarily problems. Many are created by consumers not being shown how to operate all of the "features" and bringing the vehicle into the dealership to fix something that really wasn't broken. They end up with a warranty claim for nothing. The owners still indicate they had to return to the dealership. Ford used to have the "problems" related to Sync that really wasn't broken.

I think this touches on a big part of the problem with these types of survey-based reports. While we all know there are and will always be legitimate, statistically significant problems with any manufacturer, many of these are based on perception and ignorance rather than facts. And the magnitude of many of them are minor compared to the problems we used to see. (E.g. "The fit and finish of my interior isn't as good as my neighbor's Audi," versus, "My car burns a quart of oil every week and smokes like a freight train.")

Nowadays, with so much information immediately at our fingertips and the proliferation of social media, things that would never have been reported as problems now get lots of attention. And there is a definite herd-mentality with some of it. ("I read on FaceBook that some people are having problems with rattles on their Ford Excuse, so I must have the same problem because I have the same model.")

I am absolutely NOT saying manufacturers shouldn't be held accountable for making safe and reliable products. They most certainly should. But I think we can all agree that, in general, automobiles in 2020 are WORLDS ahead of where they were in "the good old days" with respect to quality, reliability, and performance. How many cars do you see broken down on the sides of roads nowadays compared to the 50's through 80's or 90's? And there are even MORE cars on the road today, so the percentage of roadside breakdowns has to be lower by multiple times.

 

[Janruary]

You may be onto something. Is there anyone...and I mean ANYONE...who actually likes this system? It damned near gave me whiplash and caused simultaneous bowel evacuation 3-4 times before I disabled it.

Edited to add that it has apparently helped some. My sympathies to poster @highgear2005.

Same here . Backing out of my storage building at our ranch the stupid system jammed on the breaks because it saw a few weeds. Doesn't even know the difference between trees & weeds. Disabled the system before having to make trip to my Chiropractor.

 

[Dusty1948]

I think this touches on a big part of the problem with these types of survey-based reports. While we all know there are and will always be legitimate, statistically significant problems with any manufacturer, many of these are based on perception and ignorance rather than facts. And the magnitude of many of them are minor compared to the problems we used to see. (E.g. "The fit and finish of my interior isn't as good as my neighbor's Audi," versus, "My car burns a quart of oil every week and smokes like a freight train.")

Nowadays, with so much information immediately at our fingertips and the proliferation of social media, things that would never have been reported as problems now get lots of attention. And there is a definite herd-mentality with some of it. ("I read on FaceBook that some people are having problems with rattles on their Ford Excuse, so I must have the same problem because I have the same model.")

I am absolutely NOT saying manufacturers shouldn't be held accountable for making safe and reliable products. They most certainly should. But I think we can all agree that, in general, automobiles in 2020 are WORLDS ahead of where they were in "the good old days" with respect to quality, reliability, and performance. How many cars do you see broken down on the sides of roads nowadays compared to the 50's through 80's or 90's? And there are even MORE cars on the road today, so the percentage of roadside breakdowns has to be lower by multiple times.

Case in point: In an article some years ago JD Power stated that the problems per 100 vehicle average for the industry was over 600 in the mid-1970s. When you stop and think of how much more complicated various systems are today, the now current industry average of 134 says a lot.
Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030294 miles.

 

[bigoldthor]

Case in point: In an article some years ago JD Power stated that the problems per 100 vehicle average for the industry was over 600 in the mid-1970s. When you stop and think of how much more complicated various systems are today, the now current industry average of 134 says a lot.
Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030294 miles.

Exactly! Thank you. And I wonder what that 600 would've been in the 70's if we'd had the internet back then. Not necessarily a bad thing, as it could've gotten the word out about legitimate issues more quickly. Probably would've been 1200 or more, lol.

 

[go-ram]

Exactly! Thank you. And I wonder what that 600 would've been in the 70's if we'd had the internet back then. Not necessarily a bad thing, as it could've gotten the word out about legitimate issues more quickly. Probably would've been 1200 or more, lol.

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I think possibly one of the big contributors to the higher number of complaints in the 1970s was the fact that the engineers were just barely learning how to control vehicle emissions, and of course at first, they didn't have any experience at it. So they were feeling their way along, which created tons of "drivability issues". They had only very simple electronics available to control things, and comparatively simple sensors - a crude effort by today's standards, but back then it was all they had. Most cars had cold-start problems, hot-start problems, stumbling problems, etc.
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Compare that scenario to today, where they have massive computing power and amazingly sophisticated sensors - the engine control systems on vehicles today are literally light-years better than the 1970s. In the 70s we had carburetors with two or four jets to feed all eight cylinders, and today we have fuel-control systems in diesels for example that can create up to 8 separate fuel-injection events per power stroke, per cylinder. That's huge.
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So today we have massive engine control & infotainment computer power, hence more complaints due to the complex infotainment interfaces we all must use in our cars, but comparatively very few "drivability problems" that plagued the 70s.
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Just my speculation on possible reasons for the comparatively greater number of complaints in the 70s.
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[moosem]

"Why would anyone be surprised that RAMs predicted reliability is low?

I'm not surprised at all. Chrysler is notorious for unreliability throughout their entire existence. I knew that going in and I still bought my truck because I like it. "

For a certain subset of the population it is fact that "Chrysler is notorious for unreliability throughout their entire existence...," however the statement itself is not true.

CR's first issue to cover automobile 'reliability' listed the 1954 Dodge as the most reliable, and did so for the 1955 and 1956 models as well. Prior to WWII Chrysler had an enviable record as well, there just isn't any third party sources that document it. That changed with the introduction of the 1957 Chrysler, DeSoto, Dodge and Plymouth models for a number of reasons: a shift to different body manufacturers, the introduction of torsion bar suspension, and radical design changes rushed into production. While addressed for the most part in the following year, the problems affected so many vehicles that it was ripe to establish a negative perception by Chrysler's competitors and their loyal following.

Chrysler's reliability rebounded in the sixties and by 1964 was good enough to offer standard 5 year 50,000 mile drivetrain warranty. Their competitors at the time did not follow until some years later. Their reliability was generally on par with, or better than their competitors until the introduction of the 1977 Aspen Volare, which seemed to be a repeat of 1957.

Regardless of the somewhat fluid way people define 'reliability,' Chrysler reliability in recent years has been up and down just like every other manufacturer. As a demonstration I've enclosed copies of the JD Power VDS from 2010 to 2020. Note that each VDS is based on the problems per hundred of three year old vehicles. (2020 is reporting on 2017 vehicles three years of service.)

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 030294 miles.

Chrysler is on the wrong side of average for each year. What exactly is this proving again?

 

[go-ram]

Chrysler is on the wrong side of average for each year. What exactly is this proving again?

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I think the point is just that Chrysler doesn't get enough credit for what they have done right over the years, they usually get bagged forevermore for the (completely normal) number of mistakes they have made over the years. I think that was the point - and maybe that fair-mindedness & accuracy is not so much the public's strong suit?
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[moosem]

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I think the point is just that Chrysler doesn't get enough credit for what they have done right over the years, they usually get bagged forevermore for the (completely normal) number of mistakes they have made over the years. I think that was the point - and maybe that fair-mindedness & accuracy is not so much the public's strong suit?
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Don’t get me wrong, I love my truck. However, I had a strong suspicion, based on chrysler’s reputation for un-reliability, that it was going to have its fair share of problems. And, lo and behold, here we are...been back to the dealership more times than I care to count.

Chrysler’s poor quality is undeniable. I don’t care what kind of data is shown to me. My first-hand experience has confirmed what I already knew to be true. And frankly it makes no difference what they did in 1954, 64 or 77.

 

[Timeless]

Have to agree with what has already been said.

I mean a quick glance of these forums confirms it.

The 12" UConnect while fantastic has more issues. And this report was done prior to the latest OTA update which fixed a lot of these issues.

FCA vehicles in general have the worse reliability with Ram probably the best of the bunch.

That being said, I still think it's the best truck out there and am willing to roll the dice....to a point...thus the reason I leased.

I had a 2014 Sport that was flawless too so that helped.

 

[Dusty1948]

Chrysler is on the wrong side of average for each year. What exactly is this proving again?

First, Chrysler as a brand (nameplate), or Chrysler as a company?

Chrysler as a brand does fall below the industry average for 2007-2017 models. But that is not true for Ram, which is above industry average for model years 2010, 2012, 2014, and 2015.

There are several points to be made, one of them is does it really matter where any company falls on the 3 year reliability study, or more importantly does it really matter who's above the industry average? For people really concerned about where their ride falls, then I would suggest owning vehicles from Toyota, Lexus, and Porsche exclusively since those are the only brands to score consistently above the industry average.

Perhaps I made this point in another thread, but if you knew how the brand scored from three years back, would you purchase a vehicle that you liked the best, but had an average of 1.6 problems per unit, versus one you didn't like as much that had a 1.3 problem per car rating?

(There's also a curious statistical dilemma for those concerned solely about where their auto company falls against the industry average. If every brand was above the previous year's industry average, the average point would shift, producing a new industry average, and some will ultimately fall below the new average.)

Or is it bragging points? When it comes to trucks that have an intense loyalty factor, will that increase the socially acceptability of owning a Ram, over a Chevy or a Ford? I think not no matter how good the Ram is or will be, because many of those Chevy and Ford truck owners thrive on their own moral superiority and will always castigate the Ram and their owners. As far as that goes, they castigate against each other, too.

Since the spread between most brands nowadays has narrowed appreciably, and no brand scores zero problems per hundred vehicles, from a reliability standpoint I'm not concerned about which brand I'd buy. I'm going to continue buying what I like, not based on somebody else's concept of acceptability or selective reasoning.

Best regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 031480 miles.

 

[go-ram]

Don’t get me wrong, I love my truck. However, I had a strong suspicion, based on chrysler’s reputation for un-reliability, that it was going to have its fair share of problems. And, lo and behold, here we are...been back to the dealership more times than I care to count.

Chrysler’s poor quality is undeniable. I don’t care what kind of data is shown to me. My first-hand experience has confirmed what I already knew to be true. And frankly it makes no difference what they did in 1954, 64 or 77.

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I understand exactly what you're saying, I'm not arguing at all. Everyone's personal experiences are all that really matters to them, and that's the way it should be - once bitten, twice shy.
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I have to say, my 2020 Laramie Longhorn is of genuinely superb workmanship, and at least in the first month of ownership, absolutely zero issues whatsoever. It's been so gratifying & enjoyable, I wish everyone could have the good experience I've had so far.
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Again, not minimizing the pain you have felt, and I am sorry for you and sorry for Ram that you've experienced that, but clearly Ram IS capable of producing superior quality vehicles. But surely they need to improve (a) the consistency of the quality they are capable of, and (b) the dealership experience, in particular where service is concerned.
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I wish you the best, and I'm sad that your experience so far with your new Ram has been a bad one. I hope Ram & your local dealer are able to turn things around for you.
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[Dusty1948]

Don’t get me wrong, I love my truck. However, I had a strong suspicion, based on chrysler’s reputation for un-reliability, that it was going to have its fair share of problems. And, lo and behold, here we are...been back to the dealership more times than I care to count.

Chrysler’s poor quality is undeniable. I don’t care what kind of data is shown to me. My first-hand experience has confirmed what I already knew to be true. And frankly it makes no difference what they did in 1954, 64 or 77.

Since you were so emphatically convinced of "chrysler’s reputation for un-reliability," I guess it then begs the question, why did you buy one in the first place?

Regards,
Dusty
2019 Ram 1500 Billet Silver Laramie Quad Cab 2WD, 5.7 Hemi, 8HP75, 3.21 axle, 33 gallon fuel tank, factory dual exhaust, 18” wheels. Build date: 17 July 2018. Now at: 031480 miles.

 

[Timeless]

Since you were so emphatically convinced of "chrysler’s reputation for un-reliability," I guess it then begs the question, why did you buy one in the first place?

Not really a doubt as to their sub par products and even worse dealer service. Anyone denying this is basically head in the sand.

However, like all cars over the past 20+ and really 10+ years, the tech/shared tech has gotten much better. It is far more rare now to see cars of any nature stranded on the road.

It is the right time to take chances as the line between the worst and the best is shorter than it has ever been.

And more importantly the Ram trucks just look the best by a bigger margin than the worry of hassle free miles.

 

[dutchman187]

My 2 cents.

I gave up on trusting CR a long time ago.

I love my RAM. With that said, it has definitely required more repairs (under warranty) than my Camry I've had 7 years or my prior Escape I had for 14. I bought the lifetime warranty for this reason, and thus far both of my local dealers have been great to work with. If I had some of the bad service experiences some people write about on here, my opinion would very likely be soured.

The UConnect is still a joke. Why they would put in a radio that isn't capable of accepting wireless Android Auto is beyond me. The lack of true voice commands ("say a predefined message") is likewise infuriating. It is very pretty. And Android Auto works well, but I shouldn't have to be tethered to it. This was foreseeable and failure in my opinion.

I'm still dealing with the brake groan after the initial fixes didn't work last year. When I have time, I'll peruse through the countless pages on the subject and find the updated TSP that hopefully fixes it.

With all that said, I continue to love my truck and plan on having it another 8-9 years.