Math: 3.6L vs 5.7L ETorque cost estimate over 200,000 miles

[EtherRam]

Hey all,
I see a lot of reviews/opinions pushing people to get the 5.7L over the 3.6L because the "mileage and cost isn't that different". I bought the 3.6L because I plan on having the truck well past 200,000 miles, and I thought it would be interesting to see the cost difference during that time. For this I will be using fuelly.com MPG estimates, an average 87 gas price of $1.75/gal and the assumption that nothing breaks on the trucks (hahahaha). These are based on the 2019 prices (when most of us bought our trucks).

UPDATE: I added a calculation using 89 octane fuel (recommended fuel type for 5.7L) at an average price of $2.00/gal. 89 typically runs $0.20-0.35/gal more than 87. Thanks @taz2016

3.6L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $0
Fuelly avg MPG: 19.4
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 22

5.7L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $2,645
Fuelly avg MPG: 15.7
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 19

Fuel cost after 200,000 miles
3.6L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 19.4 mpg = 10,309 gallons ) ; ( 10,309 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $18,040 over 200,000 miles
3.6L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 22 mpg = 9,090 gallons ) ; ( 9,090 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $15,907 over 200,000 miles

5.7L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 15.7 mpg = 12,738 gallons ) ; ( 12,738 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $22,291 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $24,936 over 200,000 miles ($28,122 with 89 octane)
5.7L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 19 mpg = 10,526 gallons ) ; ( 10,526 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $18,420 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $21,065 over 200,000 miles ($23,697 with 89 octane)

Obviously there will be some margin of error here, but seeing the numbers here helped me feel better about my decision. Based on Fuelly, there is a $6,356 ($10,082 with 89 octane) cost difference between the 3.6L and 5.7L over 200,000 miles and based on the EPA it's about $5,158 ($7,790 with 89 octane). Based on an average of 15,000 miles/year you are looking at a monthly savings of between $32-40/month ($48-63/month with 89 octane in 5.7L) in fuel.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

 

[jimk hunt]

Hey all,
I see a lot of reviews/opinions pushing people to get the 5.7L over the 3.6L because the "mileage and cost isn't that different". I bought the 3.6L because I plan on having the truck well past 200,000 miles, and I thought it would be interesting to see the cost difference during that time. For this I will be using fuelly.com MPG estimates, an average 87 gas price of $1.75/gal and the assumption that nothing breaks on the trucks (hahahaha). These are based on the 2019 prices (when most of us bought our trucks).

3.6L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $0
Fuelly avg MPG: 19.4
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 22

5.7L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $2,645
Fuelly avg MPG: 15.7
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 19

Fuel cost after 200,000 miles
3.6L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 19.4 mpg = 10,309 gallons ) ; ( 10,309 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $18,040 over 200,000 miles
3.6L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 22 mpg = 9,090 gallons ) ; ( 9,090 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $15,907 over 200,000 miles

5.7L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 15.7 mpg = 12,738 gallons ) ; ( 12,738 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $22,291 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $24,936 over 200,000 miles
5.7L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 19 mpg = 10,526 gallons ) ; ( 10,526 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $18,420 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $21,065 over 200,000 miles

Obviously there will be some margin of error here, but seeing the numbers here helped me feel better about my decision. Based on Fuelly, there is a $6,356 cost difference between the 3.6L and 5.7L over 200,000 miles and based on the EPA it's about $5,158. Based on an average of 15,000 miles/year you are looking at a monthly savings of between $32-40/month in fuel.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

Interesting calculations. You need to factor in the difference in resale value for a completely fair comparison. I still love my Hemi.

 

[SpeedyV]

Interesting calculations. You need to factor in the difference in resale value for a completely fair comparison. I still love my Hemi.

If you figure you'll get as much more for your V8 at resale as you paid for it at purchase, you're talking a real difference of $26.57/month (using numbers above) to add 90 HP / 141 lb-ft and a throaty V8 rumble over 13.3 years.

Since I put maybe 7,500 miles/year on mine, it'll cost me about exactly 1/2 of that over the same period (13 years, ~100K miles, $13 and change per month). I'm just spreading it out, of course.

But this is academic. I'm guessing most buyers don't keep their trucks for 100K miles, let alone 200K. If they trade within 3-5 years with 36-75K miles, they won't have spent as much on fuel and may be more sensitive to differences in resale values.

 

[Mother]

May be worth mentioning that for 2020 it's only a $1695 upgrade (only $200 over the non-eTorque Hemi).

 

[EtherRam]

If you figure you'll get as much more for your V8 at resale as you paid for it at purchase, you're talking a real difference of $26.57/month (using numbers above) to add 90 HP / 141 lb-ft and a throaty V8 rumble over 13.3 years.

Since I put maybe 7,500 miles/year on mine, it'll cost me about exactly 1/2 of that over the same period (13 years, ~100K miles, $13 and change per month). I'm just spreading it out, of course.

But this is academic. I'm guessing most buyers don't keep their trucks for 100K miles, let alone 200K. If they trade within 3-5 years with 36-75K miles, they won't have spent as much on fuel and may be more sensitive to differences in resale values.

Definitely good points. I think the 3.6 makes more sense the longer you keep the truck. At 200,000 miles you aren't going to get much from selling your truck either way to be honest, so for THIS scenario I consider it a non-issue. If you are only keeping your truck 3-5 years than the fuel savings are there, but you will probably get your engine upgrade money back on the resale.

 

[silver billet]

How far down the rabbit hole do you take this? Because a Honda Ridgeline is probably cheaper on gas than your truck with the v6 is, yet we all (presumably) prefer the Ram half ton.

So it's not a math problem. We buy the Hemi because it feels stronger, and it can work harder. It's more fun. Same reason I paid $500 extra for the Billet Silver paint job when plain old white or black would work just as well but cost less. Same reason we go out to eat at restaurants instead of eating cheaper at home.

Also you can't really trust the fuelly mileage. For example, it's probably safe to assume that people who are conscientious and favour cost savings would spring for the v6 and drive carefully, whereas those who want power and "fun to drive" pick the hemi and then drive it like they stole it (or at least don't care about giving it the beans from time to time); or they pick the v8 because they need to work it (tow, haul) and gas mileage suffers while working it. Therefore these numbers are probably going to favour the v6, but, if you pick the hemi and drive it like most might drive the v6 to cut down on costs, you can get great mileage (on the highway anyway, dunno about city as I rarely drive in city for long periods).

Anyway, not trying to detract from your purchase, hope you get 200,000+ carefree miles on your new wheels!

 

[Neurobit]

You forgot to factor the joy of driving a Hemi, perhaps, because you can't put a price on it

Cheers,

 

[EtherRam]

How far down the rabbit hole do you take this? Because a Honda Ridgeline is probably cheaper on gas than your truck with the v6 is, yet we all (presumably) prefer the Ram half ton.

So it's not a math problem. We buy the Hemi because it feels stronger, and it can work harder. It's more fun. Same reason I paid $500 extra for the Billet Silver paint job when plain old white or black would work just as well but cost less. Same reason we go out to eat at restaurants instead of eating cheaper at home.

Also you can't really trust the fuelly mileage. For example, it's probably safe to assume that people who are conscientious and favour cost savings would spring for the v6 and drive carefully, whereas those who want power and "fun to drive" pick the hemi and then drive it like they stole it (or at least don't care about giving it the beans from time to time); or they pick the v8 because they need to work it (tow, haul) and gas mileage suffers while working it. Therefore these numbers are probably going to favour the v6, but, if you pick the hemi and drive it like most might drive the v6 to cut down on costs, you can get great mileage (on the highway anyway, dunno about city as I rarely drive in city for long periods).

Anyway, not trying to detract from your purchase, hope you get 200,000+ carefree miles on your new wheels!

Do Ridgeline's even count as trucks?
I don't disagree with you. The Hemi is typically rated in "smiles per gallon" anyway, so most people just eat the cost and go about their day. For me, I needed a truck that could do truck stuff when I needed it to, but could also double as a daily driver on my 40+ mile commute and not completely break the bank.

I think everyone wins here though, since 3.6 owners can be happy knowing they are saving a dinner-for-two every month, and Hemi owners know that for the cost of a cheap date every month they are getting a freaking Hemi over the V6.

 

[silver billet]

Do Ridgeline's even count as trucks?

Nope. It's just an Accord with the "factory delete trunk lid" option.

 

[Willwork4truck]

If you figure you'll get as much more for your V8 at resale as you paid for it at purchase, you're talking a real difference of $26.57/month (using numbers above) to add 90 HP / 141 lb-ft and a throaty V8 rumble over 13.3 years.

Since I put maybe 7,500 miles/year on mine, it'll cost me about exactly 1/2 of that over the same period (13 years, ~100K miles, $13 and change per month). I'm just spreading it out, of course.

But this is academic. I'm guessing most buyers don't keep their trucks for 100K miles, let alone 200K. If they trade within 3-5 years with 36-75K miles, they won't have spent as much on fuel and may be more sensitive to differences in resale values.

x2 exactly. Very few as a % will keep their truck that long, with the avg miles driven per year not even 20K, thats 10 years. Some do but most don’t.
Resale has to be considered If you are truly looking at costs/payback. Here’s an example, and it even has a bit of mpg in it.

Back in 1982 (ahem, yes, 1982) I bought a brand new Jeep Cherokee (a full sized SUV). I was in my 20’s and wanted a 4 speed, not an auto stick. The 4 speeds got like 2 mpg better than the auto overall, but neither mileage was anything to write home about with the 360 cid and quadratrack full time 4x4.

I went to a dealer who has about 50+ new Wagoneers and Cherokees on the lot. 1, exactly 1 had a 4 speed. I was thrilled, and so was the salesman as I not only paid $750 over MSRP, but took the dog off the lot. (They were dancing in the salesfloor as I left, I wasn’t sure why at the time.)
Anyway come 4 years later and I had to sell it not because I wanted to but I moved and the wife kept her car (on the back the the Ryder truck) while I drove said truck 2,000 miles. Sadly the Jeep didn’t make the trip. I took a 1K hit on resale by having the 4 speed. Even then few could drive one and fewer still wanted to.
Dumb, dumb, dumb.

So from then on I’ve looked at the most popular options, paid attention to appropriate colors and not gone out on a limb when buying a vehicle, knowing that I had to sell it sometime.

Yes this thread was comparing a 3.6 to a hemi, but lest we forget, it’s basically value to value and some “options” like an engine choice will hurt or help you down the road. If gas goes back to $4-5 a gallon then perhaps there will be a small line wanting the 3.6 truck and fewer wanting the thirsty hemi.

Ok, the old man story is done, move along...

 

[taz2016]

Nope. It's just an Accord with the "factory delete trunk lid" option.

It depends on how you use your truck. A large percentage of trucks of all brands rarely if ever actually get used as trucks.

That being said, I occasionally hauled more than the 3/4 ton capacity of my 1st gen (2007) Ridgeline. I also frequently pulled my 21' pontoon boat - 29' overall length on trailer. It handled everything I threw at it with composure. It also handled far better than any stock full size truck.

When it came time to replace it the main reason I ended up with a 2019 Ram was price. Even though I had no doubts about Honda build quality and reliability - as I do about the Ram's - I just couldn't justify paying $35,500 for a $40,000 Ridgeline when I could get a new $46,400 Ram for $32,400. Another reason I wanted to replace the Ridgeline was to improve my MPGs. I averaged around 17 MPG with the Ridgeline and now get 19 MPG with my Pentastar Ram. For those wondering both the 2nd gen Ridgeline and my 2019 Ram are EPA rated at 21 MPG combined.

 

[taz2016]

Hey all,
I see a lot of reviews/opinions pushing people to get the 5.7L over the 3.6L because the "mileage and cost isn't that different". I bought the 3.6L because I plan on having the truck well past 200,000 miles, and I thought it would be interesting to see the cost difference during that time. For this I will be using fuelly.com MPG estimates, an average 87 gas price of $1.75/gal and the assumption that nothing breaks on the trucks (hahahaha). These are based on the 2019 prices (when most of us bought our trucks).

3.6L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $0
Fuelly avg MPG: 19.4
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 22

5.7L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $2,645
Fuelly avg MPG: 15.7
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 19

Fuel cost after 200,000 miles
3.6L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 19.4 mpg = 10,309 gallons ) ; ( 10,309 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $18,040 over 200,000 miles
3.6L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 22 mpg = 9,090 gallons ) ; ( 9,090 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $15,907 over 200,000 miles

5.7L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 15.7 mpg = 12,738 gallons ) ; ( 12,738 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $22,291 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $24,936 over 200,000 miles
5.7L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 19 mpg = 10,526 gallons ) ; ( 10,526 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $18,420 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $21,065 over 200,000 miles

Obviously there will be some margin of error here, but seeing the numbers here helped me feel better about my decision. Based on Fuelly, there is a $6,356 cost difference between the 3.6L and 5.7L over 200,000 miles and based on the EPA it's about $5,158. Based on an average of 15,000 miles/year you are looking at a monthly savings of between $32-40/month in fuel.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

You forgot to use the recommended mid-grade for your Hemi calculations.

 

[EtherRam]

You forgot to use the recommended mid-grade for your Hemi calculations.

Good point! I will add that shortly.

EDIT: That changes the savings to somewhere between $48-63/month, which is a bit more substantial. That helps offset the resale difference if you sell your truck before 100k/200k

 

[moosem]

Whatever makes you feel better about driving a V6 rat.

 

[BigD]

Hey all,
I see a lot of reviews/opinions pushing people to get the 5.7L over the 3.6L because the "mileage and cost isn't that different". I bought the 3.6L because I plan on having the truck well past 200,000 miles, and I thought it would be interesting to see the cost difference during that time. For this I will be using fuelly.com MPG estimates, an average 87 gas price of $1.75/gal and the assumption that nothing breaks on the trucks (hahahaha). These are based on the 2019 prices (when most of us bought our trucks).

UPDATE: I added a calculation using 89 octane fuel (recommended fuel type for 5.7L) at an average price of $2.00/gal. 89 typically runs $0.20-0.35/gal more than 87. Thanks @taz2016

3.6L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $0
Fuelly avg MPG: 19.4
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 22

5.7L ETorque Numbers
Engine upgrade price: $2,645
Fuelly avg MPG: 15.7
EPA avg combined MPG (4x4) : 19

Fuel cost after 200,000 miles
3.6L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 19.4 mpg = 10,309 gallons ) ; ( 10,309 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $18,040 over 200,000 miles
3.6L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 22 mpg = 9,090 gallons ) ; ( 9,090 gallons X 1.75 per gallon ) => $15,907 over 200,000 miles

5.7L Fuelly: ( 200,000 miles / 15.7 mpg = 12,738 gallons ) ; ( 12,738 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $22,291 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $24,936 over 200,000 miles ($28,122 with 89 octane)
5.7L EPA: ( 200,000 miles / 19 mpg = 10,526 gallons ) ; ( 10,526 gallons X 1.75 per gallon = $18,420 + $2,645 upgrade cost ) => $21,065 over 200,000 miles ($23,697 with 89 octane)

Obviously there will be some margin of error here, but seeing the numbers here helped me feel better about my decision. Based on Fuelly, there is a $6,356 ($10,082 with 89 octane) cost difference between the 3.6L and 5.7L over 200,000 miles and based on the EPA it's about $5,158 ($7,790 with 89 octane). Based on an average of 15,000 miles/year you are looking at a monthly savings of between $32-40/month ($48-63/month with 89 octane in 5.7L) in fuel.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

For $32/mo I will keep my HEMI !

 

[GAscooter]

Around here diesel costs .75/gal more than 87 octane. I borrowed a buddy’s diesel a few years ago, and found that not all stations carry diesel and when they do, it’s often only at one pump.

 

[BigD]

You forgot to use the recommended mid-grade for your Hemi calculations.

Take a survey how many people actually use 89 octane. Manual says any gas between 87-89 is fine. It says just don't go less than 87. It says use 89 for optimal fuel mileage & performance. I venture to say the vast majority use 87.

 

[EtherRam]

Take a survey how many people actually use 89 octane. Manual says any gas between 87-89 is fine. It says just don't go less than 87. It says use 89 for optimal fuel mileage & performance. I venture to say the vast majority use 87.

The amount of people that actually use 89 octane is somewhat irrelevant, as it's the octane level that the truck recommends. The actual cost difference will vary person to person, but the calculations are using actual mileage (Fuelly), EPA estimates, and both 87 and 89 (recommended) fuel to give the best picture for a wide-range of drivers. One size definitely doesn't fit all, but I think everyone can gain some benefit from this.

 

[silver billet]

I do think your calculations are not accurate though. You have a 40 mile commute, I assume the vast majority of that is in 8th gear. On the highway, the Hemi can either almost meet or exceed the v6 with a little bit of effort, depending on your driving style. For example, I get consistently get 23 to 24 mpg on an all highway run at 63 mph.

In the city, the advantage goes more toward the v6, but on the highway, the v6 works hard and the hemi doesn't work as hard, so the more highway driving you do, the more the hemi catches up (and/or exceeds) the v6.

To be honest; I just have anecdotal data to back that up, I had the v6 in my previous Jeep GC, and that's the effect I noticed between the two trucks. On the highway, driven carefully, the hemi can do very well. The v6 is less sensitive to driving style, but it just works harder overall to do the same task.

And yes, my Hemi in a heavier truck is just a titch behind the lighter Jeep with the v6, after an exact year of driving and comparison. Something like 19.12 mpg in the Jeep over a year average, vs 18.6 mpg in the Ram, for my usage and driving style.