Kooks torque series?

[Jack.]

Anyone have any experience with the kooks torque series shorties?

Considering popping these on my 2021 laramie for some more power when I cruise around the 2000-3000rpm.

Only thing is they're mad expensive ☠☠ like around $1800 expensive. I know most would say go for the longtube but I feel like long tube wouldn't really be that great seeing how it's only improve performance at higher rpms.

Any inputs?

 

[Scap]

Kooks is top shelf. But not sure the $/hp ratio is worth it.

 

[Jack.]

Yeah I was either looking at the torque series shorty header or I guess go with a long tube header.

Still very undecided on what to go with seeing how both has pros and cons.

Only really considering the shorty aswell because of inspection issues and the noise

 

[Mopar_maxi]

If you go with long tubes you will also need an unlocked pcm, security bypass and a custom tune.

 

[Drewster]

Kooks is one of the few header companies that actually engineer their stuff - some of the best.

If you go with long tubes you will also need an unlocked pcm, security bypass and a custom tune.

This is the biggest catch. If you add *good* headers, you're changing the volumetric efficiency (VE) of the engine. Because we have Speed Density engine management, VE tables and a manifold pressure sensor are how the ECU calculates the amount of fuel needed, load, etc. If you change VE in a meaningful way (with good headers like Kooks) you need to re-tune the engine... which Chrysler made difficult.

 

[Jack.]

Kooks is one of the few header companies that actually engineer their stuff - some of the best.

This is the biggest catch. If you add *good* headers, you're changing the volumetric efficiency (VE) of the engine. Because we have Speed Density engine management, VE tables and a manifold pressure sensor are how the ECU calculates the amount of fuel needed, load, etc. If you change VE in a meaningful way (with good headers like Kooks) you need to re-tune the engine... which Chrysler made difficult.

Wow that is very complicated lol I guess shorties it is

 

[Jack.]

Actually another dumb *** questions, does the borla touring cat back system comes with a high flow catalytic converter?

 

[Drewster]

Wow that is very complicated lol I guess shorties it is

These are shorties... just keep in mind that if your headers don't need a tune, it just means they don't add power. If getting a tune sounds expensive and complicated, you're really better off just leaving it stock.

Actually another dumb *** questions, does the borla touring cat back system comes with a high flow catalytic converter?

Catback usually means it starts at the cats and goes back. It does not come with a cat because it re-uses stock

 

[Jack.]

These are shorties... just keep in mind that if your headers don't need a tune, it just means they don't add power. If getting a tune sounds expensive and complicated, you're really better off just leaving it stock.



Catback usually means it starts at the cats and goes back. It does not come with a cat because it re-uses stock

Oh for some reasons I've read that the torque series wouldn't need a tune somewhere... okay thanks! I'll look more into it! I guess for now I'll just ride the warranty out haha

 

[fawaz.]

Anyone have any experience with the kooks torque series shorties?

Considering popping these on my 2021 laramie for some more power when I cruise around the 2000-3000rpm.

Only thing is they're mad expensive like around $1800 expensive. I know most would say go for the longtube but I feel like long tube wouldn't really be that great seeing how it's only improve performance at higher rpms.

Any inputs?

Ain’t worth It Go with long tube with cat less


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[Drewster]

Ain’t worth It Go with long tube with cat less


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It's worth pointing out that will *still* need a tune and it'll never pass an emissions test.

 

[ekaz]

I was thinking shorties as well just cause the current log looks bad. LOL

 

[Jack.]

Ain’t worth It Go with long tube with cat less


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I dont mind the tune, prob just the emission passing will be an issue. My states very strict with em

 

[Orion10182011]

If you go with long tubes you will also need an unlocked pcm, security bypass and a custom tune.

Kooks advertises a set of long tubes that don't require a tune. Very expensive though.

 

[Orion10182011]

Kooks is one of the few header companies that actually engineer their stuff - some of the best.

This is the biggest catch. If you add *good* headers, you're changing the volumetric efficiency (VE) of the engine. Because we have Speed Density engine management, VE tables and a manifold pressure sensor are how the ECU calculates the amount of fuel needed, load, etc. If you change VE in a meaningful way (with good headers like Kooks) you need to re-tune the engine... which Chrysler made difficult.

I've tuned my own Corvette. The ECM can compensate for plus or minus 25% fueling. Headers don't need tune unless they significantly change the distance of the O2 sensors from the stock location. Tune would be optimal.

Which is why my Vette don't have long tubes (it has shortys) as my ECM (2007) don't have the necessary parameters to compensate. I don't want to run open loop. There is a way to do it but I'm having a hard time finding the info. Will probably purchase the manual from "The Tuning School" and hope its in there.

 

[Orion10182011]

The stock exhaust manifolds on the Hemi look very restrictive. I bet even shorties will be a big improvement.

 

[Drewster]

I've tuned my own Corvette. The ECM can compensate for plus or minus 25% fueling. Headers don't need tune unless they significantly change the distance of the O2 sensors from the stock location. Tune would be optimal.

Which is why my Vette don't have long tubes (it has shortys) as my ECM (2007) don't have the necessary parameters to compensate. I don't want to run open loop. There is a way to do it but I'm having a hard time finding the info. Will probably purchase the manual from "The Tuning School" and hope its in there.

In closed loop only. If your coolant temp isn't high enough or you're at WOT, the O2 sensors usually aren't doing squat for you. I'm not sure if these new engines are running widebands yet, but if they're still narrowband you really don't want to use that for fueling.

Hemi's can either use a Neural Network (NN) or a direct VE table dialed in on a dyno. Regardless, you're spending a lot of money to tune that change in VE properly. If you're not changing VE in a meaningful way.. what's the point of the mod?

 

[Orion10182011]

That's true about WOT. I found on my Vette that the stock calibration was way rich at WOT.

 

[Orion10182011]

Also (With GM) the last known fuel trim will be carried forward at WOT. No doubt Chrysler does something similar.

 

[Scarriere]

Though the OP bailed on the shorties, if anyone is interested, JBA makes shorty's that have 1 5/8" primaries like the Kooks.
I had them on my '04 Ram and also my Ex's 2012 Ram and didn't have leaks, nor any other issues at all.
I got "into it" with a fella that also had a nice truck and I blew him away, pretty badly. That was with the JBA shorty's, Magnaflow Cat-back, AirRaid CAI and the canned tune on a Diablo.
Good times, hahaha!