eTorque and starting issue

[1Oldman]

I have a brand new 2023 Bighorn 1500 , 5.7L with eTorque , Currently has 1138 miles on . At approx 700 miles , the truck wouldn't start ( brake pedal would not move at all -- and push button start did nothing ) after three tries , the brake pedal eventually moved like normal and the on/off button started the truck . The truck was cold after sitting all night . The truck started normal rest of that day . The following two days , truck started normal . Then after sitting for 3 days --- same thing , brake pedal didn't budge , on/off didn't work . After 5 tries , eventually the brake pedal moved and on/off worked . THe first 4-5 minutes of driving , I notice a loud " whine " sound when coming to a stop . Kinda sounded like a " turbine " sound . After 5 minutes --- sound disappeared . Following next 2 days , truck started normal , but the whine sound always happened the first 4-5 minutes of driving after cold . The same thing happened again ---- no start , tried 6 times --- and only the key fob would start the truck . Whine sound getting worse . Called the local dealer --- took NINE days for them to get me . They have had it now three days and because it didn't throw any codes -- they are not doing anything . I escalated at the dealer and was advised that they would try to create a " Star " case which elevates this to specialist .
Has anyone had any similar problems ? As a young guy I previously worked on many cars ----- to me , this is an intermittent electrical problem related to the eTorgue / MGU .
Can't tell you how disappointed I am in RAM --- I am a first time buyer of their product

 

[Richard320]

Twice in four years I've had the same thing. Hard brake pedal, no start. Extreme pushing on the brake got things to work and it was fine for months - even years - after. And I don't have eTorque I have no clue what it is, but it likely has nothing to do with the eTorque.

 

[vincentw56]

I have a brand new 2023 Bighorn 1500 , 5.7L with eTorque , Currently has 1138 miles on . At approx 700 miles , the truck wouldn't start ( brake pedal would not move at all -- and push button start did nothing ) after three tries , the brake pedal eventually moved like normal and the on/off button started the truck . The truck was cold after sitting all night . The truck started normal rest of that day . The following two days , truck started normal . Then after sitting for 3 days --- same thing , brake pedal didn't budge , on/off didn't work . After 5 tries , eventually the brake pedal moved and on/off worked . THe first 4-5 minutes of driving , I notice a loud " whine " sound when coming to a stop . Kinda sounded like a " turbine " sound . After 5 minutes --- sound disappeared . Following next 2 days , truck started normal , but the whine sound always happened the first 4-5 minutes of driving after cold . The same thing happened again ---- no start , tried 6 times --- and only the key fob would start the truck . Whine sound getting worse . Called the local dealer --- took NINE days for them to get me . They have had it now three days and because it didn't throw any codes -- they are not doing anything . I escalated at the dealer and was advised that they would try to create a " Star " case which elevates this to specialist .
Has anyone had any similar problems ? As a young guy I previously worked on many cars ----- to me , this is an intermittent electrical problem related to the eTorgue / MGU .
Can't tell you how disappointed I am in RAM --- I am a first time buyer of their product

The eTorque has nothing to do with cold (initial) starts. It still uses the 12-volt battery and a conventional starter. The eTorque only starts the engine on stop and go starts.

 

[1Oldman]

The eTorque has nothing to do with cold (initial) starts. It still uses the 12-volt battery and a conventional starter. The eTorque only starts the engine on stop and go starts.

not sure I can agree . I worked in 2015 and 2016 on the step converter design for the eTorque module ( MGU ) with a silicon valley semiconductor company . The converter regulates between 12v to 48V and back . There is a direct connection between the 48V lithium battery and the 12V starting battery .
The whining sound on deceleration started to occur at the same time the starting problem started . Are they connected ?? Maybe , maybe not . Maybe I'm just lucky to have two strange problems happening at the exact same time . I have two friends that have the same 5.7L with eTorque , both are less than 6 months old and neither one makes this sound --- and they are both very senior mechanics . My truck sounds like a turbine whining down when coming to a stop for the first 4-5 minutes of driving

 

[vincentw56]

not sure I can agree . I worked in 2015 and 2016 on the step converter design for the eTorque module ( MGU ) with a silicon valley semiconductor company . The converter regulates between 12v to 48V and back . There is a direct connection between the 48V lithium battery and the 12V starting battery .
The whining sound on deceleration started to occur at the same time the starting problem started . Are they connected ?? Maybe , maybe not . Maybe I'm just lucky to have two strange problems happening at the exact same time . I have two friends that have the same 5.7L with eTorque , both are less than 6 months old and neither one makes this sound --- and they are both very senior mechanics . My truck sounds like a turbine whining down when coming to a stop for the first 4-5 minutes of driving

You can disagree all you want, but I am correct.

 

[1Oldman]

I am not arguing regarding the starting batteries function . I was trying to state that there is a connection from the ECU to the 48V batt and 12V batt .
The primary function of the 48V is to add power to initial acceleration from a dead stop . My primary questions are related why I have a starting problem and a "whine " sound on deceleration . The regenerative braking function is designed to help charge the battery when stopping . My truck started making this sound after approx 700 miles and came on at the same time as the starting issue .
Since you posted 2700+ times --- any idea's

 

[vincentw56]

I am not arguing regarding the starting batteries function . I was trying to state that there is a connection from the ECU to the 48V batt and 12V batt .
The primary function of the 48V is to add power to initial acceleration from a dead stop . My primary questions are related why I have a starting problem and a "whine " sound on deceleration . The regenerative braking function is designed to help charge the battery when stopping . My truck started making this sound after approx 700 miles and came on at the same time as the starting issue .
Since you posted 2700+ times --- any idea's

The whole system is 48 volts and stepped down to 12 volts where needed. Others have mentioned about the whine and it was the bearings in the eTorque. You are correct on regen braking. And it is possible that is where the whine is since it is on decel. Pure speculation here, but if the eTorque bearings are the problem and creating lots of drag, maybe the starter has to overcome that too. But this is definitely something that needs the dealer to fix.

 

[1Oldman]

Thank you . Thats what I was thinking . I read some of the other posts and concur that something is wrong in the eTorque system . I have two additional questions / comments . In past posts , others have stated that the " starting issue " is most likely related a grounding issue ? Since it doesn't seem to throw a code ---how does that get diagnosed ? A ground issue could be many locations and tracing it would seem very difficult .
On the eTorque scenario --- others have posted that the bearing failure could be related to the hydraulic tensioner ? maybe a chicken VS egg scenario --- the hydraulic tensioner doesn't work and then creates to much pressure on the eTorque module ( was told they call the eTorque module the MGU ?)
From what the dealer told me that it wasn't throwing any codes ---- I get the feeling they can't get RAM to pay for the repair .
The dealer is trying to escalate ---- we will see if RAM steps up .
Thanks again ---

 

[1Oldman]

so I thought I would send out an update regarding my new 2023 Big Horn
It's been in the shop for 16 days , it took nine days to get it in the shop initially . No update from RAM or the dealership .
They advised me to not drive it as the problem with the not starting using the brake pedal and on/off button can't be diagnosed . Doesn't throw a code .
It now has a " STAR " case assigned , level 2 . Still no progress . The level 2 manager hasn't been able to reach the specialist Tech to review .
I bought the Truck brand new on 9/19/23 . Haven't been able to drive it for 26 days out of 72 days . I am a first time buyer from RAM and out of the 11 vehicles I have purchased new in my life --- this is by far the worst experience of them all and I used to be a Ford guy

 

[23RAM]

so I thought I would send out an update regarding my new 2023 Big Horn
It's been in the shop for 16 days , it took nine days to get it in the shop initially

Perhaps see if your state has a lemon law?
Otherwise you can contact RamCares to see if they can escalate for you.

I have an ongoing intermittent misfire issue they haven't been able to diagnose, but suspect it's a PCM issue, and have not been authorized to replace anything yet. It's frustrating when they can't find the fault...

 

[stevj]

... can't be diagnosed . Doesn't throw a code .

"Must be nothing wrong if no codes."
The level of training/experience of service "techs" of late is mighty disappointing.

Firm brake pedal might be from loss of vacuum in brake booster. There's a check valve.

Steve

 

[1Oldman]

"Must be nothing wrong if no codes."
The level of training/experience of service "techs" of late is mighty disappointing.

Firm brake pedal might be from loss of vacuum in brake booster. There's a check valve.

Steve

as a person who has wrenched on a ton of cars , I thought the same thing . Unfortunately it's probably an electrical issue and it's intermittent . In others posts , people were advised by " specialist " from RAM that it's a ground issue somewhere in the system . For the " whine" issue , I believe it's coming from the eTorque ( called the MGU ) . It never made a sound the first 700+ miles --- then it now only does it after sitting all night and for the first 4-5 minutes of driving when coming to a stop . It sounds like a blower on an old muscle car ---similar whine sound .

 

[1Oldman]

Perhaps see if your state has a lemon law?
Otherwise you can contact RamCares to see if they can escalate for you.

I have an ongoing intermittent misfire issue they haven't been able to diagnose, but suspect it's a PCM issue, and have not been authorized to replace anything yet. It's frustrating when they can't find the fault...

my state does a lemon law and I have documented every single conversation with the dealer and with the RAM cares folks . 14 pages of documentation . I have owned this vehicle for a total of 73 days and 26 of them I can't drive it

 

[barrak]

@1Oldman
Looking forward for an update on your truck.

 

[23RAM]

I have an ongoing intermittent misfire issue they haven't been able to diagnose, but suspect it's a PCM issue, and have not been authorized to replace anything yet. It's frustrating when they can't find the fault...

Well two months later they finally found the fault (four months from onset of misfire). Cyl 5 bad fuel injector. It was an intermittent fault so it only did it ~30% of the time after a restart, 70% of the time it ran perfectly normal, and sometimes it would start to run rough and then clear itself while still driving. Truck was throwing a misfire code which lead to them changing the coil pack. Did not fix it. Moved coil packs and misfire didn't move so not coil pack. No codes about injector or fuel issues though. So they replaced the PCM main computer. Did not fix it. Finally managed to get it to them running rough and tech was able to put the computer on the truck with live statistics and found cyl 5 injector was not pulsing. Moved injector and it moved to cyl 3 so they replaced it. Truck has run fine now every start for the last few days. I guess the computer doesn't track injector pulses. Hopefully it's fixed...could not take the truck far from home as it was unreliable and wasn't able to tow anything as it was completely powerless - fell like it would die pulling from a stoplight.

One of the odd things that makes no sense - when they changed the PCM I started getting "brake pedal position sensor" when I lifted off the brake pedal, and "media port disconnected" errors which triggered the CEL but it ran fine until the engine would run rough again. After replacing the injector, these errors disappeared.


EDIT - scratch that, started running rough like before minutes after starting this morning and CEL came on. Going back to the dealer again Monday.

 

[m.hamner]

Well two months later they finally found the fault (four months from onset of misfire). Cyl 5 bad fuel injector. It was an intermittent fault so it only did it ~30% of the time after a restart, 70% of the time it ran perfectly normal, and sometimes it would start to run rough and then clear itself while still driving. Truck was throwing a misfire code which lead to them changing the coil pack. Did not fix it. Moved coil packs and misfire didn't move so not coil pack. No codes about injector or fuel issues though. So they replaced the PCM main computer. Did not fix it. Finally managed to get it to them running rough and tech was able to put the computer on the truck with live statistics and found cyl 5 injector was not pulsing. Moved injector and it moved to cyl 3 so they replaced it. Truck has run fine now every start for the last few days. I guess the computer doesn't track injector pulses. Hopefully it's fixed...could not take the truck far from home as it was unreliable and wasn't able to tow anything as it was completely powerless - fell like it would die pulling from a stoplight.

One of the odd things that makes no sense - when they changed the PCM I started getting "brake pedal position sensor" when I lifted off the brake pedal, and "media port disconnected" errors which triggered the CEL but it ran fine until the engine would run rough again. After replacing the injector, these errors disappeared.


EDIT - scratch that, started running rough like before minutes after starting this morning and CEL came on. Going back to the dealer again Monday.

Update?

 

[23RAM]

Update?

Dealer is ordering a new wiring harness - hoping it's a bad connection or wire in the harness. Recently it started running rough every start. Then one day when it was warm and raining, it started and ran fine. Next day back to rough again. Been rough continuously for the last week. If they can't fix it this time, I'm demanding a replacement. We bought it to tow and haven't been able to tow anything since October - that means no sledding all winter for us and once spring hits, boating season starts. My wife is pissed.

 

[23RAM]

Update?

Another update - wiring harness replaced today after waiting a month for it to arrive. Running fine so far, however last time three times they thought they fixed it, it ran fine for several days and then started running rough again. I won't consider this fixed until 30 days pass without a single issue.

Have to give the dealer some credit - they knew we weren't happy so they offered to pick up my truck at my work, replaced the harness, and drop it back off at my work. I just hope it's finally resolved.

 

[23RAM]

Update?

Well it's been two weeks now and no issues so far - that's the longest it's run smooth in 5 months. I'm not considering it fixed until it hits 30 days without an issue. But if this is a fix, it's a long procedure - took them 5 hours to remove and replace the harness and return the truck to me (estimated time by RAM is 4.5 hours).

 

[23RAM]

my state does a lemon law and I have documented every single conversation with the dealer and with the RAM cares folks . 14 pages of documentation . I have owned this vehicle for a total of 73 days and 26 of them I can't drive it

Any news on fix or replace?