Aftermarket Brake Pads

[steveved]

Is it just me? Or are any of you upset that NO one is making aftermarket brake pads for the new model yet.

I mean come on, next month, this truck will have been out for a full YEAR and no one makes pads for this yet. This is kind of ridiculous.

I have harrassed EBC, Stoptech and Powerstop a few times over the past 6 months. Stoptech and Powerstop both said they were developing pads, but nothing is out yet. How long does it take to design a new pad when you can start with a factory one?

I love this truck, just wish the brakes were a little stronger. I good aftermarket pad can fix that.

 

[SpeedyV]

Is it just me? Or are any of you upset that NO one is making aftermarket brake pads for the new model yet.

I mean come on, next month, this truck will have been out for a full YEAR and no one makes pads for this yet. This is kind of ridiculous.

I have harrassed EBC, Stoptech and Powerstop a few times over the past 6 months. Stoptech and Powerstop both said they were developing pads, but nothing is out yet. How long does it take to design a new pad when you can start with a factory one?

I love this truck, just wish the brakes were a little stronger. I good aftermarket pad can fix that.

CarID shows ceramic pads and an EBC brake kit, but I know nothing about them.

 

[steveved]

Yeah, I looked at those, they are for the 2019 Classic

 

[cotonymopar]

I see what you mean... there are pads out there for the classic, but not new body.... summit and jegs have the mopar ones, but no other options....

 

[clazer]

I’m curious about this as well and couldn’t find anything on forums, parts sites, nothing. Planning on bigger tires and was hoping to increase the stopping power too!

 

[HotHareSpey]

How long do the factory pads usually last? Miles wise?

 

[AnthonyD1978]

You want better stopping then get better tires. Unless the OEM pad can't lock up your truck (which it can) then updating the pad won't do anything other than take more heat. If you're heating up the OEM pad that much then you should also swap out the brake fluid because you're cooking it.

Just my 2 pennies.

 

[clazer]

You want better stopping then get better tires. Unless the OEM pad can't lock up your truck (which it can) then updating the pad won't do anything other than take more heat. If you're heating up the OEM pad that much then you should also swap out the brake fluid because you're cooking it.

Just my 2 pennies.

My concern comes from doubling the rotating mass and increasing diameter/torque by jumping up to 37s

 

[AnthonyD1978]

My concern comes from doubling the rotating mass and increasing diameter/torque by jumping up to 37s

And what is the specific concern? Stopping, heat, towing, panic stops, ??

From a braking perspective; tires, brakes, and brake fluid are so intertwined it makes almost no sense to update one and not the others. Ultimately it's your tires that stop the truck. Unless you're cooking your pads, rotors, and/or fluid then it doesn't matter how much money you throw at those items if your tires are your weak link.

And any all-terrain tire will be the weak link when it comes to stopping power on the pavement.

 

[clazer]

From a braking perspective; tires, brakes, and brake fluid are so intertwined it makes almost no sense to update one and not the others.

Wouldn’t this be the premise behind stronger brakes when increasing braking stresses with bigger grippier rubber?

 

[DeanKing]

I want aftermarket pads because I have just started getting the dreaded squeal and it will be easier for me to change my pads than to deal with the dealership on an issue that is hard to reliably reproduce. I also don’t want them cutting my rotors when the pads are the problem. So I appreciate this post and will be watching it for when someone finally reports a pad is available.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

Wouldn’t this be the premise behind stronger brakes when increasing braking stresses with bigger grippier rubber?

Yes, if you over tire the brakes and perform multiple panic stops at the limit and in quick succession. Which I doubt anyone here is doing. Unless someone is building a road course track truck. The best thing you can do to get better stopping distance is upgrade the tire (an AT tire does not count and is worse unless you are racing a baja truck). A general rule is the lower the treadwear rating the better braking/grip you will get. My AT tire on the truck has a treadwear of 660 (harder compound). My street legal tires on my track cars would have a treadwear of less than 100 (softer compound). A good street tire that would come on say a BMW M4 or the new mid-engine Corvette that was just announced would have a treadwear of ~300.

If you end up cooking your pads from the more aggressive tire (unlikely in our truck scenarios) then upgrade pad and fluid.

I want aftermarket pads because I have just started getting the dreaded squeal and it will be easier for me to change my pads than to deal with the dealership on an issue that is hard to reliably reproduce. I also don’t want them cutting my rotors when the pads are the problem. So I appreciate this post and will be watching it for when someone finally reports a pad is available.

I've read some of the threads on this issue. I would suggest trying to bed the pads you have now. I've yet to see anyone try that to resolve the issue. If you end up getting a more aggressive pad it could just make the squeal worse.


I've done a lot of tracking for 20 years and track driving instruction. So that's where my perspective is coming from and just my 2 cents.

 

[clazer]

Yes, if you over tire the brakes and perform multiple panic stops at the limit and in quick succession. Which I doubt anyone here is doing. Unless someone is building a road course track truck. The best thing you can do to get better stopping distance is upgrade the tire (an AT tire does not count and is worse unless you are racing a baja truck). A general rule is the lower the treadwear rating the better braking/grip you will get. My AT tire on the truck has a treadwear of 660 (harder compound). My street legal tires on my track cars would have a treadwear of less than 100 (softer compound). A good street tire that would come on say a BMW M4 or the new mid-engine Corvette that was just announced would have a treadwear of ~300.

If you end up cooking your pads from the more aggressive tire (unlikely in our truck scenarios) then upgrade pad and fluid.



I've read some of the threads on this issue. I would suggest trying to bed the pads you have now. I've yet to see anyone try that to resolve the issue. If you end up getting a more aggressive pad it could just make the squeal worse.


I've done a lot of tracking for 20 years and track driving instruction. So that's where my perspective is coming from and just my 2 cents.

Some great info, Anthony! Found some interesting articles ranging from marketing to good information.

First one from road and track definitely agrees with you: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10316984/why-braking-is-all-about-tires/

Follow up question would be how does track translate to trucks? For track use, I’d imagine tire diameter is staying about the same and the goal would be to decrease rotating mass as well as vehicle mass. Trucks tend to get bigger and heavier as they get modified, because that’s just fun. Torque load increases due to the bigger tire diameter. Rotating mass goes up big time.

This article is awesome: A bunch of bureaucrats figured out how to build a mud truck for science! Pretty definitive though- bigger and heavier tires... harder to stop.

https://www.aamva.org/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/VehicleRegistrationTitling/vehStudyEffectOfOversizedTiresOnAlteredHeightVehicles_Findings.pdf

 

[AnthonyD1978]

Some great info, Anthony! Found some interesting articles ranging from marketing to good information.

First one from road and track definitely agrees with you: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10316984/why-braking-is-all-about-tires/

Follow up question would be how does track translate to trucks? For track use, I’d imagine tire diameter is staying about the same and the goal would be to decrease rotating mass as well as vehicle mass. Trucks tend to get bigger and heavier as they get modified, because that’s just fun. Torque load increases due to the bigger tire diameter. Rotating mass goes up big time.

This article is awesome: A bunch of bureaucrats figured out how to build a mud truck for science! Pretty definitive though- bigger and heavier tires... harder to stop.

https://www.aamva.org/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/VehicleRegistrationTitling/vehStudyEffectOfOversizedTiresOnAlteredHeightVehicles_Findings.pdf

Truck or car the concept is still the same. Yes, at some point you will have a diminishing return on tire width due to the weight of the tire as well as the weight of a wider wheel to support that tire. At that point, you will want to upgrade the brake pads and brake fluid.

*I'm not responsible for damages, crashing, death, etc* A simple test would be to get your truck up to speed (start at 40 mph) and do a panic stop. Do your brakes lock up (ABS should kick in)? If so, your pad is exceeding your tire threshold. Your limitation is your tire (not pad). Do a few of these stop in quick succession working up to higher speeds. If, or when, your brakes no longer engage ABS your pads/fluid are no longer adequate due to the heat build-up and/or speed (mass of tire/wheel). A better pad and fluid would improve how many panic stops you can do without having to allow the pads/fluid/tire to cool down. The higher the speed and the number of times you do this the more telling it is about your stopping performance. I would work my way up to 75mph.

If your fluid is cooked (too hot) then your brake pedal will feel soft and mushy. If you pedal feels fine, but the brakes don't lock up (ABS) then your pads are overworked. Many times both these symptoms occur at the same time.

 

[riccnick]

There's more to a brake upgrade than just a straight line panic stop. And with upgraded pads and rotors, you can achieve a more progressive application of friction, reducing the likelihood of brake lockup with the same tires on the same surface with the same friction. However, I'd say this is probably almost impossible to validate and advertise as good data, so it's not going to be considered very often, if at all.

The main reason for upgrading rotors and pads on an otherwise stock vehicle is for thermal capacity. You can get more life, more heavy braking before fade, and more consistent braking during high load situations out of different pad and rotor combinations. Another reason is that mfg's commonly use cheap material pads that are quiet (big miss by Ram here with all the braking noise TSBs... lol) but also put out a lot of brake dust. A high quality pad and rotor combo can significantly cut down on the brake dust expelled during use.

 

[AnthonyD1978]

There's more to a brake upgrade than just a straight line panic stop. And with upgraded pads and rotors, you can achieve a more progressive application of friction, reducing the likelihood of brake lockup with the same tires on the same surface with the same friction. However, I'd say this is probably almost impossible to validate and advertise as good data, so it's not going to be considered very often, if at all.

The main reason for upgrading rotors and pads on an otherwise stock vehicle is for thermal capacity. You can get more life, more heavy braking before fade, and more consistent braking during high load situations out of different pad and rotor combinations. Another reason is that mfg's commonly use cheap material pads that are quiet (big miss by Ram here with all the braking noise TSBs... lol) but also put out a lot of brake dust. A high quality pad and rotor combo can significantly cut down on the brake dust expelled during use.

I was only speaking in generalities. If you want to get into modulation, friction u, initial bite, optimal heat ranges, rotor wear, etc I don't think this post is the place for it. Though I did touch on them in my posts.

 

[riccnick]

I was only speaking in generalities. If you want to get into modulation, friction u, initial bite, optimal heat ranges, rotor wear, etc I don't think this post is the place for it. Though I did touch on them in my posts.

I mean, you seemed to be pretty focused on tire adhesion, and the ability of the stock brake pads to exceed that threshold. I was only trying to bring more daily-driver type reasons for the upgrade, which you repeatedly were against. From your track history, I would imagine you would have first hand experience with how a simple material change for the pads or rotors can affect braking properties that aren't just related to overpowering the contact patch of the tire.

(Unless I'm missing something, which is very possible).

 

[clazer]

Is it just me? Or are any of you upset that NO one is making aftermarket brake pads for the new model yet.

I mean come on, next month, this truck will have been out for a full YEAR and no one makes pads for this yet. This is kind of ridiculous.

I have harrassed EBC, Stoptech and Powerstop a few times over the past 6 months. Stoptech and Powerstop both said they were developing pads, but nothing is out yet. How long does it take to design a new pad when you can start with a factory one?

I love this truck, just wish the brakes were a little stronger. I good aftermarket pad can fix that.

Anyone have any info on the OP’s question? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[riccnick]

Quick search says Centric has them... (Same company as Stoptech) They look like they're just meant to be OEM replacement and not a performance upgrade type of part.

Apcautotech.com

www.apcautotech.com

 

[kf702]

Is it just me? Or are any of you upset that NO one is making aftermarket brake pads for the new model yet.

I mean come on, next month, this truck will have been out for a full YEAR and no one makes pads for this yet. This is kind of ridiculous.

I have harrassed EBC, Stoptech and Powerstop a few times over the past 6 months. Stoptech and Powerstop both said they were developing pads, but nothing is out yet. How long does it take to design a new pad when you can start with a factory one?

I love this truck, just wish the brakes were a little stronger. I good aftermarket pad can fix that.

I just ordered them AT Autozone.