25 Rebel leveling questions

[riored4v]

Looking at raising my 25 Rebel (non air ride) a tad for appearance more than anything. I don't take it off-road and only drive it a few miles a day so I'm not looking to go too crazy with it.

Having said that I was looking at a MotoFab 2.5" spacer up front and a MotoFab 1.5" spacer in the rear. Figured while I did it I'd also probably do a set of control arms (Mopar, KSP, RC, etc) that would work with the increased height.

Anyone done something similar and have experience with how it rides?

 

[boogielander]

read:

Thread 'Technical Tuesday: Suspension Lift vs Pucks - Why Pucks/ Spacers are Never Good Ideas'

Jan 23, 2024

This post also shows up on my website jollyrogueco.com.

Technical Tuesday is a series of technical discussions I post on Tuesdays (well, unless I don’t remember to post) to help the community make good decisions regarding their builds. This only applies to people who want/ enjoy taking their trucks off pavement, so all the technical discussions do not apply to bro-dozers and the crowd that favors look over function. This week we are talking suspension lift vs pucks.
*Note: This does not apply to air ride unless you delete it completely and go back to the traditional suspension...

• boogielander
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Suspension

• 
• 

if you not gonna go "too crazy" a set of Bilstein 5100s will be the best option for you.
Bilstein 5100s are the bare minimum, lowest budget, basic shock package you can get without f*cking up your truck.

for UCA, go with Icon tubular. those are the cheapest quality ones that is trustworthy.

 

[riored4v]

Thanks, I appreciate the help!

 

[scottmoyer]

for UCA, go with Icon tubular. those are the cheapest quality ones that is trustworthy.

I'm not sure I agree with this. If Mopar puts theirs on our trucks from the factory, they should be sufficient for a daily pavement cruiser. The Mopar UCAs from their 2" level kit are extremely inexpensive at less than $60 each (68323530AA and 68323531AA).

 

[boogielander]

I'm not sure I agree with this. If Mopar puts theirs on our trucks from the factory, they should be sufficient for a daily pavement cruiser. The Mopar UCAs from their 2" level kit are extremely inexpensive at less than $60 each (68323530AA and 68323531AA).

hmm well for me i only trust companies that are actively involved in the offroad application/ races. think King, Fox, Baja Designs, etc.
if it's good for racing and taking big jumps then it is for sure plenty good for whatever 95% of the people here do.

icon is actually at the bottom of my recommendation list. i just looked at their retail pricing (i see wholesale pricing most of the time) if OP is gonna go that route then he's better off spending a bit more for Thuren or Carli lol

 

[scottmoyer]

Again, Thuren and Carli will be more expensive than Mopar. As you said, extreme offroading and jumping will require heavy duty, but daily driving doesn't provide that much abuse to require the heavier duty hardware.

That's like buying a 2500 solely for the purposes of towing a single jet ski. Sure it does it, but why spend excess amounts when the lesser cost item performs perfectly fine for the task?

 

[boogielander]

because more is always better and the truck deserves the best parts
it's like saying why need a 33 gallon tank when a 26 gallon tank does the job. it's just gas tanks!

sorry, but i'm the type of guy who goes big and only use top tier stuff, regardless if it's street use or offroad use. that's the case for my own personal truck, as well as the trucks that I build for customers. i firmly believe if something is good to handle the abuse, even though it may be overkill, it will be plenty good for whatever common people throw at it.

i don't half-*** things. go big, or don't do it at all.

 

[scottmoyer]

I disagree again. Just because someone isn't throwing big money at unnecessary parts doesn't mean they're half-***ing it. There's no reason to overbuild it. And it has no relation to fuel tank size scenarios. The larger tank holds more and takes you further on each fill. There is nobody that would call that overkill.

Scenario - A networking customer purchased a $60k router because a contractor recommended it. The same router manufacturer has a device that will do more than the customer needs for $9k. Why spend $50k more for a powerhouse router when another device, with the same reliability, will do the job? Bigger is NOT always better. Especially when it comes to people's pocketbook.

 

[boogielander]

well you can disagree all you want and i don't really care if you agree with me or not, not gonna change what i recommend OP to do. forum and groups are filled with people holding that "if it works it works, no need to get the top tier stuff" or "i'm just doing it for the looks" mentality, and i'm tired of seeing junk like that. no wonder there's a lack of support from legit aftermarket manufacturers.

oh and for your networking example: if a customer is willing to spend $60k, let him spend $60k. It's called business write off. i'm no expert in IT hardware, but logic dictates that the $60k unit has more capacity and data handling capabilities and features than the $9k unit. Said customer doesn't need it now, but doesn't mean he will not need it later. when/ if he needs it later, there's cost of new unit, tech's labor fee to take the old one out and install the new one, and possibly inflation. same thing with me building my gaming PC. Did i have to buy RTX3090ti in 2022 while a simple RTX3060 would let me play games at full spec and run graphic intensive editing software? No, but i did because I spent the money on 3090ti and i'd be good for years to come, whereas if i got 3060 I'd be looking to upgrade now.

so yeah... if people can't understand the simple concept of "if it's good to take abuse then it's more than good enough to take daily driven duties" then... i don't know what else to say.

 

[scottmoyer]

Well, as you said, the OP stated he wants this for appearance only and drives a few miles a day, so spending more than necessary is unreasonable. Now, he also mentioned the 2" puck lift. I agree NOT to do that. If you're gonna do something, do it right, but that doesn't mean go broke doing it. The proper leveling kit is the way to go.

Regarding your business write off statement, again, that's ridiculous. Businesses have budgets and need to work within those budget. Wasting money just to write it off burns the budget faster and doesn't allow for other project purchases. I would expect that anybody recommending hardware to a company would look at a 5 year plan to determine the growth potential and if the lesser cost equipment will still be viable in 5 years.

There's no sense in discussing this further because it sounds like you have a different perspective on spending other's money. That's fine, but it doesn't work for everyone, so I provided an option also. If the OP wants top stuff, he knows what to purchase. If he wants something that works for his needs and doesn't break the bank, he has that option also. The benefit of forums is to provide options and opinions. He has both.

 

[Ready Go]

We all want the best, but we all have budgets, and we all have to be realistic about what we're really looking for.

@riored4v is looking to get started at an entry level..small steps, low cost..probably will move up the scale in time.

@scottmoyer is pointing out that this can be done reasonably and inexpensively with "budget"parts like the Mopar 2" UCAs..if it's sufficient for Mopar's kit, it should work for @riored4v to gets started.

@boogielander is using his Rebel for real boogie and overlanding..he is doing real truck stuff that punishes his truck. Breakdowns and repairs cost time, money, frustration, etc..so he goes for the best quality to get that level of reliability and performance which is sensible for him for sure.

I've started in stages, like @riored4v is probably doing. I swapped in Eibachs (on 0 lift Clip #1) with 1" ORP springs to start. 1" lift, $450 for Eibach set, $125 for ORP springs..cheap. I redid the front to Clip #2 for 1.625" lift and now I'm leveled. I love the leveled look, but now want more. I may go to Clip #3 which would give me 2.25" lift with the ORP springs..and then, I would swap in the Mopar 2" UCAs that I've have for a year now but didn't use because I didn't really need to at 1.625"

Having said that, I'm also currently trying to either talk myself into..or out of..going to Accutune Fox 2.5 PE DSCs (883-06-166), which I will set to 2.5-2.625" lift (1" more than now) and then swap on the rear ORP springs I have with the Fox rears to keep the leveled look. With the $3899 Fox package, I'm would NOT use the Mopar UCAs, because they are totally mismatched in performance level. I'd definitely use the Thuren UCAs to have the highest quality and performance level match...but Thuren UCAs are currently $1050/pr.

These really are two diverging trucks I'm talking about...
One is current setup that I have ~$575 into. If I bump to 2.25" Clip #3, add the Mopar UCAs ($125) and McBay 0.5" rear coil spring spacers ($45), I'm in it for ~$750..and honestly, for daily driving, on-road use it drives and rides great!
The Fox/Thuren setup is complete overkill for my needs, but like many here..we like what we like. This setup is costly for sure..$3899, $1050, $125 (rear ORPs)..not to mention that I'd like the Thurens rear panhard rod and rear U/L UCAs just to really break the bank!!..even @boogielander hasn't gone this far, and he does real truck stuff with his truck.

Each of these options also require differing wheel/tire packages (for me at least). #1 Budget build would use a modest 275/60R20 (33") tire for street use, and #2 Blow the Budget build would use a 275/65R20 or maybe 285/65R20 (the weight of a 35x12.5 is NO for me!)..again adding cost.

Long post, but we're all doing what's right at the time, for us..and we all probably want more. I love how the Forum gives us so much knowledge and help! @boogielander and @Biggiehorn have build threads that are inspiring to me..along with others here!

**I may get banned, for excessively long post replies!

 

[boogielander]

We all want the best, but we all have budgets, and we all have to be realistic about what we're really looking for.

@riored4v is looking to get started at an entry level..small steps, low cost..probably will move up the scale in time.

@scottmoyer is pointing out that this can be done reasonably and inexpensively with "budget"parts like the Mopar 2" UCAs..if it's sufficient for Mopar's kit, it should work for @riored4v to gets started.

@boogielander is using his Rebel for real boogie and overlanding..he is doing real truck stuff that punishes his truck. Breakdowns and repairs cost time, money, frustration, etc..so he goes for the best quality to get that level of reliability and performance which is sensible for him for sure.

I've started in stages, like @riored4v is probably doing. I swapped in Eibachs (on 0 lift Clip #1) with 1" ORP springs to start. 1" lift, $450 for Eibach set, $125 for ORP springs..cheap. I redid the front to Clip #2 for 1.625" lift and now I'm leveled. I love the leveled look, but now want more. I may go to Clip #3 which would give me 2.25" lift with the ORP springs..and then, I would swap in the Mopar 2" UCAs that I've have for a year now but didn't use because I didn't really need to at 1.625"

Having said that, I'm also currently trying to either talk myself into..or out of..going to Accutune Fox 2.5 PE DSCs (883-06-166), which I will set to 2.5-2.625" lift (1" more than now) and then swap on the rear ORP springs I have with the Fox rears to keep the leveled look. With the $3899 Fox package, I'm would NOT use the Mopar UCAs, because they are totally mismatched in performance level. I'd definitely use the Thuren UCAs to have the highest quality and performance level match...but Thuren UCAs are currently $1050/pr.

These really are two diverging trucks I'm talking about...
One is current setup that I have ~$575 into. If I bump to 2.25" Clip #3, add the Mopar UCAs ($125) and McBay 0.5" rear coil spring spacers ($45), I'm in it for ~$750..and honestly, for daily driving, on-road use it drives and rides great!
The Fox/Thuren setup is complete overkill for my needs, but like many here..we like what we like. This setup is costly for sure..$3899, $1050, $125 (rear ORPs)..not to mention that I'd like the Thurens rear panhard rod and rear U/L UCAs just to really break the bank!!..even @boogielander hasn't gone this far, and he does real truck stuff with his truck.

Each of these options also require differing wheel/tire packages (for me at least). #1 Budget build would use a modest 275/60R20 (33") tire for street use, and #2 Blow the Budget build would use a 275/65R20 or maybe 285/65R20 (the weight of a 35x12.5 is NO for me!)..again adding cost.

Long post, but we're all doing what's right at the time, for us..and we all probably want more. I love how the Forum gives us so much knowledge and help! @boogielander and @Biggiehorn have build threads that are inspiring to me..along with others here!

**I may get banned, for excessively long post replies!

i haven't gone that far because kings were way backordered at the time when i was ordering parts... and i was ordering parts 4 months before RAM actually built my truck (6 months before I actually got the truck). i've yet to need the panhard bar and the control arms because I'm not going for that extra inch of lift (i'm only at 2" front and 1.5" rear compared to the non-Rebels, within the stock spec in the back) to gain maximum droop and suspension travel, and i'm actually gonna stop spending money on this truck and redirect the fund towards power wagon instead.

being in the industry and done this too many times both professionally and personally, I honestly don't see the point of spending money on "budget" stuff and then come back and spend the extra on labor and take a loss on the budget stuff. instead of wasting money to do it twice, do it once and call it a day. i've went from Bilstein + SPC arms to Kings and Dirt King on my previous build (4Runner), but that was because I was a broke college student and I wished I saved up and went straight to Kings instead.

oh, and there's a thread in one of the facebook groups that showed failed Mopar UCA not long ago too

 

[Ready Go]

i haven't gone that far because kings were way backordered at the time when i was ordering parts... and i was ordering parts 4 months before RAM actually built my truck (6 months before I actually got the truck). i've yet to need the panhard bar and the control arms because I'm not going for that extra inch of lift (i'm only at 2" front and 1.5" rear compared to the non-Rebels, within the stock spec in the back) to gain maximum droop and suspension travel, and i'm actually gonna stop spending money on this truck and redirect the fund towards power wagon instead.

being in the industry and done this too many times both professionally and personally, I honestly don't see the point of spending money on "budget" stuff and then come back and spend the extra on labor and take a loss on the budget stuff. instead of wasting money to do it twice, do it once and call it a day. i've went from Bilstein + SPC arms to Kings and Dirt King on my previous build (4Runner), but that was because I was a broke college student and I wished I saved up and went straight to Kings instead.

oh, and there's a thread in one of the facebook groups that showed failed Mopar UCA not long ago too

I totally hear you, I'm just a sucker for the process..I love modifying things and learning. I rarely ever go straight to best immediately, I always work my way there.

Thank you very much for the heads up on the Mopar UCAs..I haven't read anything at all about failures. I'm not crazy at all about the OEM & Mopar UCA two material bonded design..I guess cheap to produce and sell, but they then end up just being cheap standard-wise also. I don't really see myself using them, and definitely not if I step up to Fox, Thurens then.

Your setup has been well planned and thought out..and last year you "battle tested" it also (thanks btw, for taking us with you!).

I'm on the fence, enjoy what I have and what's actually working well for me, or risk a lot of money and time to chase the next level(?).

I've got a plan that I'm dialing in currently..my list is mostly ready..Fox, Thuren, Fuel, Firestone, etc..just working on finalizing.

Wheels, tires, shocks, control arms, weights, pressures, etc...it's like a huge puzzle that we try to get just right..gotta love it!!

 

[boogielander]

I totally hear you, I'm just a sucker for the process..I love modifying things and learning. I rarely ever go straight to best immediately, I always work my way there.

Thank you very much for the heads up on the Mopar UCAs..I haven't read anything at all about failures. I'm not crazy at all about the OEM & Mopar UCA two material bonded design..I guess cheap to produce and sell, but they then end up just being cheap standard-wise also. I don't really see myself using them, and definitely not if I step up to Fox, Thurens then.

Your setup has been well planned and thought out..and last year you "battle tested" it also (thanks btw, for taking us with you!).

I'm on the fence, enjoy what I have and what's actually working well for me, or risk a lot of money and time to chase the next level(?).

I've got a plan that I'm dialing in currently..my list is mostly ready..Fox, Thuren, Fuel, Firestone, etc..just working on finalizing.

Wheels, tires, shocks, control arms, weights, pressures, etc...it's like a huge puzzle that we try to get just right..gotta love it!!

oh yeah lol i started out telling my customers the budget option is fine if they're not sure, then they all came back a year or less later to upgrade. now i just tell them to go big so they won't need to in the future lol much like my GPU lol just f*ck it and go for the best and be good for years to come and won't leave me thinking "i should've got the better one"
the material thing for MOPAR is also a concern for me too. icon tubular are meh compared to Thuren or Carli, and their shock package are no good. seen too many failures or premature leaks on those.

for you, if you still have treadlife left on your tires, i'd just delay everything until your tires are done then just do the fox lol. the thuren rear goodies are entirely optional, unless you are raising the rear up too much. that way you won't feel as rushed to do everything together lol. and the best part is, the shocks are serviceable, the UCA from Carli and Thuren are both greasible, so they all will prolong the service life provided you grease them. you'll be set for until the truck falls apart lol.

that was an epic trip and i'm glad you enjoyed it through the screen! was hoping with the trip and showcasing how well things worked can help guide some people to go on the right path and in term, push the aftermarket demand towards the right direction so we can get suspension packages that let us compete with raptors and such, but seems like there's no hope in that. that's the biggest reason i'm giving up and started setting aside funds for the full Thuren package (at least $10k) on the power wagon...

 

[Ready Go]

oh yeah lol i started out telling my customers the budget option is fine if they're not sure, then they all came back a year or less later to upgrade. now i just tell them to go big so they won't need to in the future lol much like my GPU lol just f*ck it and go for the best and be good for years to come and won't leave me thinking "i should've got the better one"
the material thing for MOPAR is also a concern for me too. icon tubular are meh compared to Thuren or Carli, and their shock package are no good. seen too many failures or premature leaks on those.

for you, if you still have treadlife left on your tires, i'd just delay everything until your tires are done then just do the fox lol. the thuren rear goodies are entirely optional, unless you are raising the rear up too much. that way you won't feel as rushed to do everything together lol. and the best part is, the shocks are serviceable, the UCA from Carli and Thuren are both greasible, so they all will prolong the service life provided you grease them. you'll be set for until the truck falls apart lol.

that was an epic trip and i'm glad you enjoyed it through the screen! was hoping with the trip and showcasing how well things worked can help guide some people to go on the right path and in term, push the aftermarket demand towards the right direction so we can get suspension packages that let us compete with raptors and such, but seems like there's no hope in that. that's the biggest reason i'm giving up and started setting aside funds for the full Thuren package (at least $10k) on the power wagon...

Your thoughts are spot on!

I've been thinking the same things recently..I really want new wheels/tires this spring when we're done with snow (SALT!!) here in Wisco. I really do like my 5-spoke Laramie wheels, and I only have 12.5k on my 2024 Larry-G/T, so can definitely wait a bit.

I've set aside the money to do the whole Blow-the Budget Build, but keep wondering if I should settle into my Ram more before making that leap.

My current Eibach Leveled lift (with rear Progress Technologies 25mm swaybar and front poly swaybar bushings) and OEM wheels/tires setup rides and handles like a dream! Friends with very similar Laramies and GMs have commented how well it rides. I don't want to F it up, but those OEM 275/55R20 look so small (31.9"), especially because they have a flat 11/32" HT tread design.

I've got a couple months before spring to decide some things, thanks for your insight and advice!

As to your possible future PW Build, I've seen some of the CJC PW Builds they've done and those PWs are Beasts!! I can see your desire to build one of those!

 

[boogielander]

Your thoughts are spot on!

I've been thinking the same things recently..I really want new wheels/tires this spring when we're done with snow (SALT!!) here in Wisco. I really do like my 5-spoke Laramie wheels, and I only have 12.5k on my 2024 Larry-G/T, so can definitely wait a bit.

I've set aside the money to do the whole Blow-the Budget Build, but keep wondering if I should settle into my Ram more before making that leap.

My current Eibach Leveled lift (with rear Progress Technologies 25mm swaybar and front poly swaybar bushings) and OEM wheels/tires setup rides and handles like a dream! Friends with very similar Laramies and GMs have commented how well it rides. I don't want to F it up, but those OEM 275/55R20 look so small (31.9"), especially because they have a flat 11/32" HT tread design.

I've got a couple months before spring to decide some things, thanks for your insight and advice!

As to your possible future PW Build, I've seen some of the CJC PW Builds they've done and those PWs are Beasts!! I can see your desire to build one of those!

just jump in and do it lol

and don't mention the CJC PW... i'm still kicking myself for not getting it when they put it up for sale last year right before the trip lol