5w20 vs 5w30

[bigdodge]

I've read 50/50 decision on this matter with the 5.7 hemis what's your guys thoughts is 5w30 safe to run

follow owner's manual is the best bet.

 

[silver billet]

follow owner's manual is the best bet.

Owner's manual also says transmission fluid is "lifetime" and doesn't need to be serviced. They're very clearly wrong as ZF says to service it.

5w-30 offers superior protection, it's not a "oil cap" thing it's a tribology thing.

 

[Jkmrc51]

Olive oil is just fine as long as it’s Extra Virgin.

View attachment IMG_0002.webp

 

[mikeru82]

Oil cap says 5w20, so I run 0w20...

Meh...the cap on our 2020 Limited says 5w 20, so I run Redline 5w 30.
There are lots of arguments on which oil to run. This new thread is pointless with the information available out there. Older Hemi's called for 5w 30. Newer Hemi's call for 0w 20. At some point between they called for 5w 20. But nothing internal was changed as far as bearing clearances go. I believe they changed the recommended oil from 5w 30 to 5w 20 after adding MDS. I never let MDS engage so I'm confident running 5w 30. I also do 5k oil change intervals.

In the end my point is if you're worried about your warranty then you should stick with the recommended viscosity. Period, end of sentence. If you're less concerned about that (as in my case) then run what you feel is best for your engine.

 

[Tripnet]

My '19 hemi loves valvoline EP 5w30. Tried m1 EP 5w30 but butt dyno indicated engine felt "sluggish". Also switched from fram ultra to carquest premium filter. Engine is quiet, responsive plus valvoline offers $5 off coupon for 5qt bottles until August.

 

[silver billet]

My '19 hemi loves valvoline EP 5w30. Tried m1 EP 5w30 but butt dyno indicated engine felt "sluggish". Also switched from fram ultra to carquest premium filter. Engine is quiet, responsive plus valvoline offers $5 off coupon for 5qt bottles until August.

This is the problem with "butt dyno", it can be misleading. A simple viscosity or formula change will not be noticable by the butt!

 

[WXman]

Well well well... what do we have here? I've been saying for years that 20-weight oils are too thin for V8 engines, especially in trucks where they see loads and stress. This is why Hemi engines have issues most of the time; they are fed insufficient oil viscosity. Then today the news breaks that GM is changing spec on their 6.2 V8 because they're having rod bearing failures due to insufficient oil viscosity. They're changing manuals from 0W20 to 0W40, changing oil caps on engines, etc.

But, when you try to explain this to fellow truck owners, all you get is "the engineers know best". Sigh..... engineers do what the guys signing their paychecks tell them to do.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Well well well... what do we have here? I've been saying for years that 20-weight oils are too thin for V8 engines, especially in trucks where they see loads and stress. This is why Hemi engines have issues most of the time; they are fed insufficient oil viscosity. Then today the news breaks that GM is changing spec on their 6.2 V8 because they're having rod bearing failures due to insufficient oil viscosity. They're changing manuals from 0W20 to 0W40, changing oil caps on engines, etc.

But, when you try to explain this to fellow truck owners, all you get is "the engineers know best". Sigh..... engineers do what the guys signing their paychecks tell them to do.

A vast majority of these trucks never see anything heavier than the weight of the passengers. And citing GMs flawed design on the 6.2, and band-aid fix of higher viscosity is a poor attempt to debate. Especially since they are still calling for a 0w-40, which has more viscosity modifiers to meet the wider spread and is more susceptible to shear. And it's the same engineers making this call as the ones who signed off on the initial recommendations. So do you really trust them?

 

[Scram1500]

The 6.4 also has lifter problems and they use 40 weight. This boils down to cheap parts with poor heat treatment/hardening

 

[frisby5]

A vast majority of these trucks never see anything heavier than the weight of the passengers. And citing GMs flawed design on the 6.2, and band-aid fix of higher viscosity is a poor attempt to debate. Especially since they are still calling for a 0w-40, which has more viscosity modifiers to meet the wider spread and is more susceptible to shear. And it's the same engineers making this call as the ones who signed off on the initial recommendations. So do you really trust them?

I think the engineers are doing a balancing act for what is minimum protection with also saving fuel . I tow 8k TH w SxS need all the protection for the heat stress my engine sees i also live in AZ

 

[SD Rebel]

Well well well... what do we have here? I've been saying for years that 20-weight oils are too thin for V8 engines, especially in trucks where they see loads and stress. This is why Hemi engines have issues most of the time; they are fed insufficient oil viscosity. Then today the news breaks that GM is changing spec on their 6.2 V8 because they're having rod bearing failures due to insufficient oil viscosity. They're changing manuals from 0W20 to 0W40, changing oil caps on engines, etc.

But, when you try to explain this to fellow truck owners, all you get is "the engineers know best". Sigh..... engineers do what the guys signing their paychecks tell them to do.

I have a Tahoe in that recall range, it's been on 0W-20 since new with well over 100,000 miles now and zero issues, great oil analysis reports and tows a horse trailer for much of it's life. As someone mentioned the 6.4L Hemi still has lifter issues and comes from the factory with 40W.

After researching, the issue with GM 6.2L seems to be bad batch of internal engine parts from vendors coming it at different phases of time, some having issues with just a couple of hundred miles on them. Not sure what the 40W oil is actually going to do, but will be waiting to see what my recall letter says.

But I'm open minded, I could have Redline 0W-30 in my future, in the meantime, I'm not ready to change the oil weight in my RAM to anything above 20W.....yet.

 

[silver billet]

I have a Tahoe in that recall range, it's been on 0W-20 since new with well over 100,000 miles now and zero issues, great oil analysis reports and tows a horse trailer for much of it's life. As someone mentioned the 6.4L Hemi still has lifter issues and comes from the factory with 40W.

After researching, the issue with GM 6.2L seems to be bad batch of internal engine parts from vendors coming it at different phases of time, some having issues with just a couple of hundred miles on them. Not sure what the 40W oil is actually going to do, but will be waiting to see what my recall letter says.

But I'm open minded, I could have Redline 0W-30 in my future, in the meantime, I'm not ready to change the oil weight in my RAM to anything above 20W.....yet.

Here is a great watch by an oil expert (he claims in the video that he was involved in an oil study with GM for this engine line). Bottom line, you should be running higher viscosity in the hemi's.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Here is a great watch by an oil expert (he claims in the video that he was involved in an oil study with GM for this engine line). Bottom line, you should be running higher viscosity in the hemi's.

You obviously didn't watch the video all the way through. I was just going to post the same link. He literally say, to not blindly change oil viscosity because you think it will help. They have seen oil samples where the higher viscosity actually caused more wear.

Also, GM called for higher viscosity as a band-aid to bigger issues with the engine. It's cheaper to tell owners to use thicker oil, than to fix the engineering issue with the bottom ends on the 6.2.

 

[SD Rebel]

Here is a great watch by an oil expert (he claims in the video that he was involved in an oil study with GM for this engine line). Bottom line, you should be running higher viscosity in the hemi's.

Did you watch this video to the end, he doesn't claim that at all. Starts at 17 minutes, he literally states that depends on the results you get from your own data, he literally says don't jump to a higher viscosity because of this automatically without doing your own research. He also mentions he has data where going to a higher viscosity actually resulted in higher wear.

He also goes through to why GM is doing this, and that may not apply to other engines. That being said, I'm open to thicker oil in my Hemi, assuming it actually helps, but not sure about the Hemi and it's delicate roller pins. I do have 4-5 Blackstone Labs test with 0W-20, I may do one with 0W-30 and see how it goes, not that oil analysis catches everything.

 

[SD Rebel]

You obviously didn't watch the video all the way through. I was just going to post the same link. He literally say, to not blindly change oil viscosity because you think it will help. They have seen oil samples where the higher viscosity actually caused more wear.

Also, GM called for higher viscosity as a band-aid to bigger issues with the engine. It's cheaper to tell owners to use thicker oil, than to fix the engineering issue with the bottom ends on the 6.2.

Lol, you beat me to it, but I'm leaving mine up as well. Funny how similar our replies are, I didn't read your comment before posting mine.

 

[silver billet]

Did you watch this video to the end, he doesn't claim that at all. Starts at 17 minutes, he literally states that depends on the results you get from your own data, he literally says don't jump to a higher viscousity because of this automatically without doing your own research. He also mentions he has data where going to a higher viscosity actually resulted in higher wear.

He also goes through to why GM is doing this, and that may not apply to other engines.

That being said, I'm open to thicker oil in my Hemi, assuming it actually helps, but not sure about the Hemi and it's delicate roller pins.

He doesn't mention "hemi", but you have to do a little more thinking. There are a few points to take away from this which are not 6.2 specific: higher viscosity always offers more protection, viscosity is temperature dependent, higher viscosity will not cause problems for MDS/VVT etc.

I don't know where you get "delicate roller pins" from. This is why the "viscosity is temperature dependent" point is so critical to understand. At -35C, a 0w-20 and 0w-40 both have similar viscosity's, that's what the "0w" means. But at 100C, the 40 grade is thicker than the 20 grade. That doesn't matter, it's still FAR thinner than it was at -35C. If your "delicate rolller pins" can survive a 0w-X at -35 which is the thickest it will be, it can definitely survive a 40 grade at 100C.

And yes I have like 8 UOA reports on my engine, the two highest wear metals are the two times I ran a 20 grade oil.

 

[SD Rebel]

He doesn't mention "hemi", but you have to do a little more thinking. There are a few points to take away from this which are not 6.2 specific: higher viscosity always offers more protection, viscosity is temperature dependent, higher viscosity will not cause problems for MDS/VVT etc.

I don't know where you get "delicate roller pins" from. This is why the "viscosity is temperature dependent" point is so critical to understand. At -35C, a 0w-20 and 0w-40 both have similar viscosity's, that's what the "0w" means. But at 100C, the 40 grade is thicker than the 20 grade. That doesn't matter, it's still FAR thinner than it was at -35C. If your "delicate rolller pins" can survive a 0w-X at -35 which is the thickest it will be, it can definitely survive a 40 grade at 100C.

And yes I have like 8 UOA reports on my engine, the two highest wear metals are the two times I ran a 20 grade oil.

You have to do a little more listening, at 17m he doesn't say you should jump to a higher viscosity, you forget to mention that which is the whole point of my reply back to you. You made it sound like a slam dunk recommendation that wasn't the point of the video at all.

He even states they have results from owners who went to higher viscosity and actually saw higher wear, so it depends and shouldn't be blanketed to all engines to be the case.

Again, I'm open to it, and will do my own testing, I'm just not convinced yet and neither was the author of the video you posted.

Also, which is thicker at full operating temperature, 20W or 40W? Which do I think will lubricate (reach) my roller pins better in those conditions?

 

[silver billet]

Did you watch this video to the end, he doesn't claim that at all. Starts at 17 minutes, he literally states that depends on the results you get from your own data, he literally says don't jump to a higher viscosity because of this automatically without doing your own research. He also mentions he has data where going to a higher viscosity actually resulted in higher wear.

He also goes through to why GM is doing this, and that may not apply to other engines. That being said, I'm open to thicker oil in my Hemi, assuming it actually helps, but not sure about the Hemi and it's delicate roller pins. I do have 4-5 Blackstone Labs test with 0W-20, I may do one with 0W-30 and see how it goes, not that oil analysis catches everything.

Also, he doesn't say higher viscosity increases wear. He said it increases temperature (which I never noticed in my truck). He did say, sometimes higher viscosity doesn't lead to less wear in the UOA's he saw, that's not the same as saying increases wear.

The UOA's I've done personally on mine, and seen on ramforum ... they all show the hemi responds very well to increased viscosity. He is talking in general terms, if you have a honda civic running in the city and never getting up to temps, higher viscosity isn't going to help in that case.

 

[silver billet]

Expanding a bit on the temperature thing; you can notice an increase in temperature "in the lab" or the dyno, but in the real world it just means your cooling system takes care of this for you. Maybe your fan kicks in sooner, or your thermostat opens quicker, these are not issues we need to worry about.

Lets put it this way.
- I run a 5w-30
- I removed my active grill shutters
- I have installed a 180 degree thermostat

My truck now TOWS at lower temperatures on the freeway, than it used to hit unloaded when everything was stock and running 5w-20. I now tow at about 104 - 106C, unloaded and stock I used to hit 107 or 108 at the same speed. Of course I hit higher peaks while towing up a long grade, but it settles back down again quite quickly.

 

[HSKR R/T]

Lol, you beat me to it, but I'm leaving mine up as well. Funny how similar our replies are, I didn't read your comment before posting mine.

Ita okay because sikverbullit wouldn't have seen my reply as he has me on ingore. It's funny he is still arguing against something Lake says in the video, he posted, as if he didn't say it.