Towing Break Even...

[raven_DT]

We have put 15k miles on our truck since we purchased in July 2019. Its been problem free (knock on wood) and has spoiled me a bit (exceptional design). We purchased our TT in October and have since towed it 1100 miles. Truck tows it fine (26ft/6000#), no issues. Wish I had the 33 gal tank. The question I have is, we have several more longer distance trips (2500 miles, 900 miles and 3x 500 milers) planned this year. Next year we are planning a trip to Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon. Is this amount of towing too much for a 1/2 ton truck? Specifically will I start to see significant engine and suspension wear? I'm kicking around the idea of moving up to a 3/4 ton gas for durability margin. Our truck is comfortable while towing, but just wondering if this may be pushing its long term durability limits. Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Pressgrove]

Personally, I wouldn't sweat it.

Even if you take all of the mileage you've towed and plan to tow, then assume it doubles the wear and tear on the truck vs. regular driving, you still haven't done much (the functional equivalent of putting an additional 6k miles on the truck).

If there was an issue with towing ability, weight limits, etc. the calculation changes, but as long as you are within the (conservative) posted limits of the truck and are happy with the performance, I would stick with what I had.

All that said, I'm sure others may see this differently.

 

[silver billet]

I'm in the same boat. Unfortunately no easy answer. You will definitely put more stress on the truck while towing than while not towing, but how much it matters is debatable. Trading in a < 1 year old truck means I would lose at least $15,000, and then there is the hit on another new truck. Or, you trade it in on a 3 to 4 year old diesel with 100,000 K and "break even" on the trade financially, but now you have a much older truck again.

So financially, at least in my case I don't think it works to trade in simply to save the life of the current truck. If there was some other reason (like truck not handling the load) that might be a different story.

 

[spinxt]

I towed a 5k lb boat multiple times a week (short 30 mile trips) and 3-4 times a year long 800-1000 mile trips with my 2014 Grand Cherokee. It’s now my secondary vehicle, but has nearly 210,000 miles on it and still runs great. It’s all about maintenance. Keep your oil changes up to date with a high quality synthetic, change your diff and transfer case fluid every 30-50k, and keep a close eye on other wearable components (shocks, end links, bushes, brake pads/rotors, etc.). If you do that, the towing your doing with a fairly lightweight trailer won’t even make your Ram sweat

 

[Willwork4truck]

Los of folks tow a fair bit, contractors, some guy on the forum tows for a living with his ecodiesel (he delivers rv's).
My un-expert opinion (but based on reading lots of rv forums over the years) is that 1 - you will be fine as far as suspension and component wear goes as you are not exceeding stated limits and 2 - just change fluids, to include your differential (rear), on the "severe duty" schedule. Or, if you don't want to look that up, change your fluids after each long tow, or at least once annually. By fluids I mean tranny, coolant and differential, as well as brake fluid. (Power steering should be ok).

You are adding heat to the equation, and heat is the enemy of fluids. Going full synthetic (one of the few times I'd recommend that) would also help you out. As well as the usual yadda' yadda' of no excessive speed, watch your braking style (downshift) and no lugging, lock out 8th unless you have 3.92 etc...

 

[silver billet]

Another thought. Lets say you keep the current truck for 5 years. When you go to trade it in, dealer won't know or care how hard or soft those miles went on your truck. They will look at features, total mileage, and for scratches or interior care but that's it. They won't care about service records, how often you changed the oil, that you washed it 10 times a year and pampered it. Your truck will be valued for the same condition and features as another truck that didn't work nearly as hard. So may as well work it.

If your plan is to keep it for 10, 15, 20 years, well that's a differnet story and maybe a bigger truck might be the better option. But still you'd lose less trading it in after 5 years than trading it in now.

 

[green68mustang_2002]

It is a truck, and it is made to be driven and worked. If you are comfortable towing what you tow, carry on.

 

[Willwork4truck]

Another thought. Lets say you keep the current truck for 5 years. When you go to trade it in, dealer won't know or care how hard or soft those miles went on your truck. They will look at features, total mileage, and for scratches or interior care but that's it. They won't care about service records, how often you changed the oil, that you washed it 10 times a year and pampered it. Your truck will be valued for the same condition and features as another truck that didn't work nearly as hard. So may as well work it.

If your plan is to keep it for 10, 15, 20 years, well that's a differnet story and maybe a bigger truck might be the better option. But still you'd lose less trading it in after 5 years than trading it in now.

exactly. The biggest POS vehicle can be professionally detailed for a couple hundred bucks and you'd never know anything. Theres a YT detail vid about some Canadian (Ontario) lady smoker with a Mitsubishi Eclipse that was a rolling dumpster, complete with smoking stains. After a (several hundred dollar Cdn) detail, the thing looked new, in and out. Thats the problem with buying used, you have to expect things like that...
Remember all the tricks from years past? replacing the seats, replacing the footpedal covers, changing floormats...

There's documented vids of hotshot drivers and expediters who pull out their interiors and replace them back with the originals when they trade in. One is on Powerstrokehelp.com, some poor 25 ish yr old kid got royally screwed on an F250 2005 King Ranch with "85K miles" and he bought it from his Ford dealer as well. It is a 6 yr old video but still very accurate: It needed a new motor... 0 compression in 2 cylinders etc... Watch this vid when you have time!! skip forward to 4:30 in the video for the main point...
BUYER BEWARE FORD POWERSTROKE DIESEL
1,509,130 views
•Feb 21, 2013

 

[tobyw]

I'm kicking around the idea of moving up to a 3/4 ton gas for durability margin.

I don't know which brand(s) you might be considering, but moving up to a 3/4 ton gas Dodge truck will net you essentially nothing in terms of durability over what you already have, given that it uses the same 5.7L Hemi (base engine) and 8HP75 8-speed automatic you already own... The rear differential is significantly stronger and can handle more load, but at 6k you aren't even beginning to approach the limits of your current rear axle. The same is true of the frame itself. One could possibly argue that the larger displacement 6.4L Hemi is working less and therefore less wear-prone, but that is really splitting hairs especially when talking about such a minimal load.

I would agree with what others have said - a switch might make more sense if you were towing at max capacity every day, but for recreational use I think you've got the perfect tool for the job that will last you many many years if you take good care of it

 

[Grimson]

I'm legally towing a 10000# GWVR TT and understand your concerns. Fully agree with previous comments...Change fluids more frequently and don't drive it like ya' stole it...



Cheers!

 

[raven_DT]

I don't know which brand(s) you might be considering, but moving up to a 3/4 ton gas Dodge truck will net you essentially nothing in terms of durability over what you already have, given that it uses the same 5.7L Hemi (base engine) and 8HP75 8-speed automatic you already own... The rear differential is significantly stronger and can handle more load, but at 6k you aren't even beginning to approach the limits of your current rear axle. The same is true of the frame itself. One could possibly argue that the larger displacement 6.4L Hemi is working less and therefore less wear-prone, but that is really splitting hairs especially when talking about such a minimal load.

I would agree with what others have said - a switch might make more sense if you were towing at max capacity every day, but for recreational use I think you've got the perfect tool for the job that will last you many many years if you take good care of it

Well, if I traded for a 2500 Ram it would be a left over 19 or new 2020 with a 6.4 and the same 8HP75 tranny that is in our 1500s. You cant get get a 5.7 in a new HD Ram anymore. Problem is I dont want to trade in on a "new" gen 3/4 ton Ram because it still uses the last generation Cab. So our 5th Gen 1500 Crew Cabs have more interior volume (esp rear legroom) than a new Ram 2500/3500 crew cab. That was one thing that struck me we I started looking at the 2019 1500 crew cabs...they had more room than my 2017 Ram 2500 Crewcab.
GM: The new 2500 gas 6.6 is hobbled with a 6 speed transmission and a hideous grill. Thats unfortunate because if you looked a spec sheet for the GM 2500 gasser it has some pretty impressive capabilities. Payload, bed length, interior volume...
Ford: Heavily leaning towards a F250 with the 7.3 (Godzilla!!!) gas engine with a 10 speed auto. The Ford is nowhere near the same as far as interior design as the new Rams. Lots of hard plastic and coarse materials. I would have to pony up for a Lariat to REALLY buy in but thats a huge upcharge over my Bighorn that has spoiled me. But 430hp and 475ft-lb with a 10 speed...I might be able to over look that.

So order of possible trucks: 1. 2020 F250 w 7.3 2. Ram (preferably a 6.4 w 3.73 Mega Cab) 3. Very distant Chevy 2500 LT gasser 6.6 w 3.73 (only option) and GM front bra to cover grill...
In the end, I'm thinking that this little 1500 Ram of mine has spoiled me and it would take a *very* convincing reason to upgrade to a 3/4 gasser. The 5th generation Ram 1500 does so many thing so well its hard to find a reason to change. My concern was/is over the long term durability if we are towing with it 4-6K per year.

 

[raven_DT]

The other thing is the my concern with durability with the 5.7 (performance engine) with the aluminum block versus say a 6.4 (true truck engine) that uses an iron block...

 

[SemperGumby]

The other thing is the my concern with durability with the 5.7 (performance engine) with the aluminum block versus say a 6.4 (true truck engine) that uses an iron block...

The 5.7 in our trucks is an iron block with aluminum heads.

 

[silver billet]

Personally, I'd worry that trading in for another gas engine would be too much money for too little upgrade. The second I feel it working hard I would just worry that it's still not enough engine and kick myself for not "doing it right" and getting a diesel. So that's where I am right now; just keeping my Ram and re-evaulate in 5 years to see where the market is at.

Totally agree on the GM powertrains though, they really keep shooting themselves in the face. They put the 6 speed with the gasser, when it absolutely needs the 10 speed, and then put the 10 speed with the diesel where it would be fine running 6 gears. You can't get the big 6.2 in cheaper trims, unlike Ram and Ford which allow you to get whatever engine you want in whatever trim. I used to own GM stuff, but some of their decisions are so obviously money grabbing at the expense of the consumer that I'm pretty disgusted with them.

That and the lack of low speed transfer case in 4x4 (unless you get the Z-71 or X-31 package); what's the point of 4x4 without a low speed T case. Completely baffling.

 

[raven_DT]

Personally, I'd worry that trading in for another gas engine would be too much money for too little upgrade. The second I feel it working hard I would just worry that it's still not enough engine and kick myself for not "doing it right" and getting a diesel. So that's where I am right now; just keeping my Ram and re-evaulate in 5 years to see where the market is at.

Totally agree on the GM powertrains though, they really keep shooting themselves in the face. They put the 6 speed with the gasser, when it absolutely needs the 10 speed, and then put the 10 speed with the diesel where it would be fine running 6 gears. You can't get the big 6.2 in cheaper trims, unlike Ram and Ford which allow you to get whatever engine you want in whatever trim. I used to own GM stuff, but some of their decisions are so obviously money grabbing at the expense of the consumer that I'm pretty disgusted with them.

That and the lack of low speed transfer case in 4x4 (unless you get the Z-71 or X-31 package); what's the point of 4x4 without a low speed T case. Completely baffling.

I'm aligned with your position except for the diesel part. I put a lot of miles on my vehicles and quite a few of those trips are short in duration (<10 miles). So with short trips diesels dont have a chance to warm up and your emissions equipment (2nd drawback) doesn't have a chance to get to operating temps either. I miss the effortless towing with my 6.7 but I dont miss the oil and fuel filter ($100 for both) changes at 10K (12qts) and the constant eye on the temp exhaust temp gauge. With the power that this generation of gas engines is putting out, for my towing needs, gas makes more sense and less hassle. Especially as a daily driver. This truck has ruined me as far as looking at other trucks...

 

[Willwork4truck]

Raven, that amount of towing just isn’t going to stress (out) your 1500. Lots of older (like 20 yr older) trucks are towing that much weight on a daily basis. Think landscapers and contractors. Think of the drivetrain you’ve got compared to the drivetrains available back in the day. Being an old fart whose had several 1970’s to 1990’s trucks, I can guarantee you that your 1500 is way more capable of a truck in all things except payload. You don’t need a lot of payload with a good wdh and a travel trailer (if thats what it is).

Don’t waste the money this year on a change. If you absolutely love the Ford when it comes out in 2021 with a redesign, then go for it, just be prepared to have a fuel bill that will be similar to the RAM V10 or the Chevy 8.1 of yesteryear. Or wait until theres a gen 5 RAM 2500 with the 6.4. There’s also the chance that RAM might step up the 6.4 in power to help it compete in a later year model. Just drive it a little slower and change the fluids.

A correction on my first reply about changing fluids, you aren’t towing “big” so the rear diff doesn’t need more than 1 change maybe every 50K. I still stand by annual coolant, brake and tranny fluid changes though. Go synthetic on brake and trans fluid. Even what I am recommending is “overkill” for many.

 

[NDanecker]

If you are towing within your limits, and it sounds like you are, why try to repair something that isn't broke yet, or will ever break in the time you own the truck?

 

[NDanecker]

One could possibly argue that the larger displacement 6.4L Hemi is working less and therefore less wear-prone, but that is really splitting hairs especially when talking about such a minimal load.

I think the 6.4 would work harder as you have more weight to move (guessing 1200 lbs heavier??) with what......15 more HP and 30 ft-lbs of torque? That is not much to compensate the extra weight. Torque curve is probably different but not by much.

There is a video that shows acceleration between 2500 with the 6.4 vs. 1500 with 5.7, and the 1500 beat it by a number of car lengths so yea......its slower because its heavier and the bigger engine doesn't compensate for the extra weight.

Suspension, frame and axles are heavier but why kill a bee with a hammer when a fly swatter will do, and you already own the swatter?

 

[silver billet]

If you are towing within your limits, and it sounds like you are, why try to repair something that isn't broke yet, or will ever break in the time you own the truck?

There are limits, and there are limits. These trucks may be fine pulling 9000 pounds couple times a summer a few hours down the road. But it's a different story if you were for example, using them for your business and pulling heavy machinery all day every day. Right? So the question is more about "am I killing my truck early by working it hard", and depending on how often you are pulling and what you are pulling, the answer to that is definitely "yes", even if you are within the limits.

 

[NDanecker]

But it's a different story if you were for example, using them for your business and pulling heavy machinery all day every day. Right? So the question is more about "am I killing my truck early by working it hard", and depending on how often you are pulling and what you are pulling, the answer to that is definitely "yes", even if you are within the limits.

I agree, but OP isn't towing it daily (aka work truck) so apples and oranges? Also, if you upgrade trucks every 3 or 4 years inside warranty.....what is your goal then if the increased wear is outside your ownership envelope?