Ram 1500 BEV

[WXman]

Ford and GM have officially taken reservations for their EV pickups, with Ford actually running them down the assembly line as I type this. Horsepower and torque from both trucks crushes the output of any ICE powertrain currently available in a pickup. The only thing even close is the Ram TRX which uses the blown V8 drinking 93 octane like it's sponsored by OPEC.

Not to be outgunned, Ram says they're asking customers around the country what they want in an electric pickup, and this fall at the L.A. Auto Show they plan to announce what they've come up with. I expect it to have class leading power numbers. 800 lb/ft wouldn't surprise me at all. Payload and towing will match the current 5th gen Ram trucks. Range will be above 400 miles if they want to best GM, which I'm sure they do. It's going to make for the most interesting future powertrain of all.

I'm not an EV guy. Have never owned one. I'm stubborn, set in my ways, and always late to adapt to new tech. But even I can't deny the awesomeness of a 600 HP/800 lb ft pickup truck that costs $20 to "fill up" and then drive 400+ miles, while maintaining all payload and towing specs I'm used to, and adding additional storage under the "frunk" since there's no need for an engine, not to mention losing the need for oil, filters, and fluids. Wow.

 

[djevox]

Great in theory, but you’ll essentially be buying a $80-100k vehicle that’s limited to trips that the current charging infrastructure supports (current infrastructure is appalling). I’ll personally be waiting until rapid chargers are 1:2 with gas stations.

Edit: before someone says “Oh, The lightning pro is only $4x,xxx and Ram will do the same,” current marketing conditions don’t support that and won’t for years. There are lightning pros that are $80,000 because of mark ups right now.

 

[deeve]

Still think a PHEV is the best option out there right now until the infrastructure catches up. Our 4xe only goes 24-29 miles on a charge, but it is enough for most things during the week. I wish the range was more so I could take advantage of the silent drive off-road. The power and torque from the electric motor is amazing. Combines with a turbo engine and it is pretty damn fun. For something like a truck that gets used throughout a wide range of scenarios, I do not think things are where they need to be. Perhaps for a fleet truck that stays local it would work great.

That is just my perspective. I am hoping once these things really hit the street that will change as folks adapt.

 

[WXman]

Great in theory, but you’ll essentially be buying a $80-100k vehicle that’s limited to trips that the current charging infrastructure supports (current infrastructure is appalling). I’ll personally be waiting until rapid chargers are 1:2 with gas stations.

Edit: before someone says “Oh, The lightning pro is only $4x,xxx and Ram will do the same,” current marketing conditions don’t support that and won’t for years. There are lightning pros that are $80,000 because of mark ups right now.

Well, GM and Ford are both advertising $39,990 EV pickups. And Ford and GM have both threatened dealerships with consequences for price gouging. I actually saw the letter GM sent to its dealers with my own eyes. There is also a running list on the Silverado EV forum of dealerships who have agreed to sell the EV at or in a couple of cases $2,500 below MSRP.

As far as charging goes, in theory you'd charge it at home. 400 miles of range is equal to a Hemi Ram or Coyote F-150. It's not like you're going to need to be on the cord every night. When it gets to 20%, hook it up and let it charge overnight. On a long road trip, it's surprising how many charging sites there are. Out of curiosity, I pulled up the map to look at my rural area of Kentucky and there are dozens of sites around me. And I live in a very old fashioned and traditional area with country folk. So I can only imagine that near less rural areas the number of charging sites is huge.

I'm not sure life with a 400 mile range would be that hard to adjust to. It's like having the "gas station" at your home....at 5 times less cost.

 

[KeithStone76]

I live in a cold weather climate. Plenty of cars get stranded on highways and byways during winter storms. It'll be interesting to see how the batteries hold up to winter driving and how well the heat will work. I've heard a couple of people say with their electric cars, it's not an issue. I'm not sure on that. I guess time will tell.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

 

[ekaz]

All these promises of 400 mile range...what is the range like when its loaded up and/or towing? I'm guessing 50% of range at most. Add cold on top of that and then maybe 100 mile range. There is a long road ahead. What is the cost of charging at these charging sites?

 

[WXman]

I live in a cold weather climate. Plenty of cars get stranded on highways and byways during winter storms. It'll be interesting to see how the batteries hold up to winter driving and how well the heat will work. I've heard a couple of people say with their electric cars, it's not an issue. I'm not sure on that. I guess time will tell.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Tapatalk

I wonder about that too. I did see photos of Ford torture testing the F-150 Lightning with an enclosed trailer behind it in the Rocky Mountains during a snow storm. They're aware of the climate I'm sure.

All these promises of 400 mile range...what is the range like when its loaded up and/or towing? I'm guessing 50% of range at most. Add cold on top of that and then maybe 100 mile range. There is a long road ahead. What is the cost of charging at these charging sites?

What happens to a diesel pickup with a heavy load? 55% loss? 65% loss? The EcoDiesel specifically loses that much or more. I can attest to that from personal experience. And the guys at TFL found the same in their tow testing.

Gas trucks lose a smaller %, BUT they're starting off at a much lower efficiency to begin with, so essentially it's the same.

EVs will be no different than ICE trucks. You'll lose range with a heavy load in tow, just like we all do now. Most engineers are saying that during testing the % of range lost is similar to an ICE truck. The Rivian pickup has been seeing a 45% range loss while heavy towing in testing according to all the online reports. Pretty much spot on what we're already used to.

 

[ekaz]

What happens to a diesel pickup with a heavy load? 55% loss? 65% loss? The EcoDiesel specifically loses that much or more. I can attest to that from personal experience. And the guys at TFL found the same in their tow testing.

Gas trucks lose a smaller %, BUT they're starting off at a much lower efficiency to begin with, so essentially it's the same.

EVs will be no different than ICE trucks. You'll lose range with a heavy load in tow, just like we all do now. Most engineers are saying that during testing the % of range lost is similar to an ICE truck. The Rivian pickup has been seeing a 45% range loss while heavy towing in testing according to all the online reports. Pretty much spot on what we're already used to.

It's easier and quicker to fill a diesel tank than finding somewhere and then waiting for a charge. Even if the diesel needed gas and an EV truck made it to same place to "refuel", the diesel will be out in 10-15 minutes and the EV will be there at least an hour.

 

[djevox]

It's easier and quicker to fill a diesel tank than finding somewhere and then waiting for a charge. Even if the diesel needed gas and an EV truck made it to same place to "refuel", the diesel will be out in 10-15 minutes and the EV will be there at least an hour.

And that’s most likely with a 150+kW fast charger. Good luck finding one of those on a long trip.

 

[jimothy]

It's easier and quicker to fill a diesel tank than finding somewhere and then waiting for a charge. Even if the diesel needed gas and an EV truck made it to same place to "refuel", the diesel will be out in 10-15 minutes and the EV will be there at least an hour.

A diesel never needs gas.

 

[GKIII]

All these promises of 400 mile range...what is the range like when its loaded up and/or towing? I'm guessing 50% of range at most. Add cold on top of that and then maybe 100 mile range. There is a long road ahead. What is the cost of charging at these charging sites?

Range is affected with towing on fossil fueled trucks too. I get maybe 8Mpg on some of my tows. The problem is charging rate on top of limited infrastructure. I can refuel in 5 minutes vs an hour with a BEV.

 

[Rick3478]

Will a 250 KVA Cummins genset fit in the bed?

 

[Bavet]

How many charging stations out there that can accommodate a truck with camper in tow?

 

[deeve]

Well, GM and Ford are both advertising $39,990 EV pickups. And Ford and GM have both threatened dealerships with consequences for price gouging. I actually saw the letter GM sent to its dealers with my own eyes. There is also a running list on the Silverado EV forum of dealerships who have agreed to sell the EV at or in a couple of cases $2,500 below MSRP.

As far as charging goes, in theory you'd charge it at home. 400 miles of range is equal to a Hemi Ram or Coyote F-150. It's not like you're going to need to be on the cord every night. When it gets to 20%, hook it up and let it charge overnight. On a long road trip, it's surprising how many charging sites there are. Out of curiosity, I pulled up the map to look at my rural area of Kentucky and there are dozens of sites around me. And I live in a very old fashioned and traditional area with country folk. So I can only imagine that near less rural areas the number of charging sites is huge.

I'm not sure life with a 400 mile range would be that hard to adjust to. It's like having the "gas station" at your home....at 5 times less cost.

The issue I am finding with public chargers is that some are free and that is really great, but more of them charge money. Around here, it is not that far off from gasoline prices for a full battery or tank. At home, if you have good electrical rates (I do) it makes sense. Prior to owning a PHEV I did not realize this. I am sure as things move along that delta between gas and electric will get greater and greater. Combine that with fewer moving parts/maintenance that electric only vehicles have and you will come out ahead. We will get there. One of the reasons why I leased the 4xe is to support the technology and keep it moving forward. This generation of electric truck I see as the same. Buying one supports the tech, invests in the future and keeps it moving forward. It is not the best solution YET and IMHO does not surpass gasoline engines on a 1:1, but it will and pretty quickly at that in some areas of the US.

 

[deeve]

How many charging stations out there that can accommodate a truck with camper in tow?

None without blocking other parking spots or chargers I would guess.

 

[WXman]

The issue I am finding with public chargers is that some are free and that is really great, but more of them charge money. Around here, it is not that far off from gasoline prices for a full battery or tank. At home, if you have good electrical rates (I do) it makes sense. Prior to owning a PHEV I did not realize this. I am sure as things move along that delta between gas and electric will get greater and greater. Combine that with fewer moving parts/maintenance that electric only vehicles have and you will come out ahead. We will get there. One of the reasons why I leased the 4xe is to support the technology and keep it moving forward. This generation of electric truck I see as the same. Buying one supports the tech, invests in the future and keeps it moving forward. It is not the best solution YET and IMHO does not surpass gasoline engines on a 1:1, but it will and pretty quickly at that in some areas of the US.

How many real world miles do you get on electricity only? I know Jeep advertises 21, but what's the real world show you? Can you get 25? 30?

The 4xe is an excellent option because you've got the ICE engine to fall back on, and that 2.0T engine in my personal experience is very strong and gets low 20s MPG on its own. Makes for a flexible and extremely efficient package. I just wish they already offered that setup on a pickup truck. A Ram 1500 4xe with 50 miles of EV range would be amazing.

 

[LaxDfns15]

How many real world miles do you get on electricity only? I know Jeep advertises 21, but what's the real world show you? Can you get 25? 30?

The 4xe is an excellent option because you've got the ICE engine to fall back on, and that 2.0T engine in my personal experience is very strong and gets low 20s MPG on its own. Makes for a flexible and extremely efficient package. I just wish they already offered that setup on a pickup truck. A Ram 1500 4xe with 50 miles of EV range would be amazing.

This is exactly what I want. Either manage to fit it in with our current V8's or the TT straight 6 they're talking about, and give me 50 miles of electric range. That covers 90% my daily commute/errand running at almost any given time. I could essentially go over a month without needing to put gas in the truck if I had 50 electric miles.

 

[deeve]

How many real world miles do you get on electricity only? I know Jeep advertises 21, but what's the real world show you? Can you get 25? 30?

The 4xe is an excellent option because you've got the ICE engine to fall back on, and that 2.0T engine in my personal experience is very strong and gets low 20s MPG on its own. Makes for a flexible and extremely efficient package. I just wish they already offered that setup on a pickup truck. A Ram 1500 4xe with 50 miles of EV range would be amazing.

I get between 24-29 regularly. When it is cold or extremely hot it is on the 24 mile end. Moderate temps 26. Sometimes it hits the perfect combo and I have gotten as high as 29.

 

[cochise111]

EVs won't be viable for fifty years. Most all power plants are using fossil fuels. Sort of defeats the pupose of EVs doesn't it? The only current possible replacement for fossil fuel utlilizing power plants is nuclear energy, which the environmentists and others don't want operating either. In fact, nuclear plants are slowly shutting down all over the country. All urban areas are on the verge of brownouts and blackouts now due to high energy consumption during extreme temperature swings. What do you think will happen when hundreds of thousands of EVs come online? Not a rhetorical question. Already, certain areas are asking their customers not to charge their EVs at times. It's really a joke. EV batteries are manufactured using "rare earth" materials currently, although the builders are now discovering ways to make them without rare earth minerals. The minerals come from countries who hate us like Russia , China and the Middle East. The batteries can't be disposed of or recycled either. As of now, I'm not sure if the EVs can either, and their running life isn't that long. Charging stations are slow and very expensive to install in one's home. I read something like $5k the other day, but I can't verify that. I finally saw a car magazine address my concerns last month after months of ignoring the facts. They said that manufacturers of EVs are looking at nuclear fusion as a future charging alternative, but it won't be viable for, as I wrote, fifty years. What will we do until then? What about renters? They won't put a charger in their rented home. Also, who wants to wait a half hour to charge their vehicle and/or drive to a charging station and wait in line? The government and car companies are "putting the cart far in front of the horse". You can't have an EV without a quick and sure way to reacharge it. Smart vehicle companies like FCA and BMW are including gas engines to power and recharge their cars for the forseeable future when electricity isn't available. It's the prudent course to take, because EVs are doomed for now. I read that Rivian lost $4 billion last quarter alone and Ford lost almost $3 billion on EVs. I will stick to ICEs until the end.

 

[habu987]

I needed a 3rd row, so I traded in my '19 for a Kia Sorento PHEV late last year. Besides some bugaboos in terms of Kia's implementation of the PHEV powertrain (ie, the electric motor is underpowered, Kia didn't use an electric heat pump, and the programming sets the ICE engine to kick in under anything remotely close to non-leisurely driving), I thoroughly enjoy it.

It stickers with 32 miles of electric range and off the top of my head I've hit 29 a few times. I have a trickle charger at home and a L2 charger at work, so 95% of my driving is all electric. My last tank of gas lasted just under 1500 miles and my current tank is on track to hit 2500 miles or even more. I pay about $0.07/KwH and the car has a ~16Kw battery, so the economics have worked out very well for me.

We've got some road trips coming up this summer so I expect the overall mpg to plummet down into the 30-32 mpg range, which is what it tends to get when running in hybrid mode, but it's still not bad at all for an SUV.

I think PHEVs are the way to go in principle. More specifically, I think a PHEV as in a well engineered serial PHEV is the way to go. Throw a nicely powerful EV motor or two in there and a sufficiently powerful ICE generator in there to charge the battery under any load conditions and I'd be happy as a clam.