Questions about ceramic coatings and paint protection film (ppf)

[gilla81]

Hi everyone, new 2020 Ram 1500 Limited owner here. Its the blacked out midnight package. I've had black cars before and know how easily they show dirt, swirls, etc... I'd really like to keep this beauty as clean and protected as possible. I was originally planning to get a ceramic coating. I'm leaning towards a brand called Feynlab Self Heal Lite. It comes with a 5 year warranty, but a hefty price tag. A friend suggested ppf, so I inquired about it as well. It sounds like it does a great job on road debris and rock chips. It too is expensive though. I'm curious what everyone's experience has been like with either of these products. If you could only choose one, which would you go for? Right now the best options in my budget would be to just coat the car in the Feynlab Self Heal Lite. It sounds like an incredible product with it's self healing capabilities, while I know it's limited and not all scratches will disappear. It still sounds cool. Another option would be to wrap the entire hood and headlights in ppf and then coat the car with a less expensive coating called SB3 Alpha. Both coatings come with 5 year warranty. Online all coatings seem to get good reviews. This detailer I know has experience with a lot of different ceramic coatings, and he really spoke highly of the Feynlab Self Heal Lite. His recommendation was to just go the Feynlab coating route. My initial goal is to help keep it shiny, easier to clean, protection against elements/sun because it will be parked outside, and protection against things like love bugs. Here in Florida love bug seasons is pretty awful. It makes me sick to my stomach to see all those bugs on the front of my car, anything to help my fight against them would be awesome. It is a daily driver truck, and me and the family have plans of getting an RV in the near future to make the memories. The truck is unfortunately inevitably going to gain some character along with all of these adventures with the family.

Also, has anyone ever ceramic coated the interior? Was it worth it? I have leather seats. My daughter is 3, so not exactly easy on the interiors lol. Thanks in advance for all fo the advice. I look forward to hearing your stories/experiences.

 

[PurpleRT]

My $.2 if I could choose one it would be PPF > ceramic coating. I’ve had both and the PPF film does a hell of a good job saving your paint from rock chips. From personal experience wrapping the whole hood isn’t necessary unless you have the extra money. Take care of all the painted areas obviously you have a limited so your dealing more with chrome a partial wrap on the hood, fenders, bumpers/grill (if they’re painted), mirror caps and go a step further and have the A pillars and roof cap done as well. This should protect your front end quite well. As far as the ceramic coating never heard of that brand but there’s so many coatings out in the market now it’s hard to say what’s the best, I’ve used carpro cquartz in the past on my previous truck and liked it, I wouldn’t pay a huge premium over using other brands but I would also shop around and maybe a little bit out of your area to find the best deal. Also if you find a shop that can do both the ceramic coating and Xpel you tend to get a better deal.


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[AmericanRebelution]

Protecting the "front facing" areas with PPF will definitely offer superior protection against rock chips and bugs. But ceramic coating will offer protection to the other areas of the truck against swirls and make cleaning easier. As a fellow Black Diamond Crystal Pearl owner, the ceramic coating really helps with washing and protection. As @PurpleRT mentioned, if you are able to do both ceramic coating to the whole vehicle and PPF to the front facing areas, it would give you very effective protection.

 

[Ryancassidy]

Ceramic doesn't offer paint protection.... Folks need to understand that. It simply offers an easier cleaning experience. The Ceramic coating is so thin (1 micron) it doesn't have the ability to offer any protection against swirls/chips etc.

PPF is the only thing that will get your genuine Paint Protection. PPF is also self healing... You could wash it with a scrubbie from the kitchen sink, sit it in the sun and a few hours later its all good again.

Basically it comes down to..

Protection
or
Ease of Cleaning

PPF doesn't provide ease of cleaning (well it kind of does as its self healing so you may not have to be as careful in your wash) and Ceramic Coating doesn't provide Paint Protection. The Ceramic Film is measured in Microns.... as in 1 micron... and yeah its hard, but it doesn't provide any measurable chip protection.

PPF is thick.. About 10mils.. which is 254ish microns. Its not impermeable.. I've got 2 chips that went through my PPF on my new car, but its provides A LOT of protection for all the crap out there.

A lot of folks use PPF and then top with Ceramic. which you can do, provides both protection and a lot of shine and ease of cleaning, but for the price of the professional ceramics, there are several DIY solutions (stay away from F11 and all that junk though) that you can use as part of your detailing process, maybe once every 6 months, that provide just as good shine/slickness/ease of cleaning for far less cost. Note you also have to "top" ceramic coatings to keep them 95-100% anyway.

Anyway... trying to help folks spend $3k wisely is all HTH's

 

[HAL9001]

PPF is the ultimate protection, but the cost can be very high. If you want to save your front end from inevitable rock chips, it definitely would be worth considering PPF.

The cost of PPF can be greatly mitigated by buying it in bulk, then it's quite reasonable. You can buy it on Amazon or directly from the manufactures for very little. It's only when you purchase pre-cut PPF or have it installed that it costs so much.

You can install PPF yourself, it's not as hard as it may seem. It takes some practice but it's doable. The material is amazingly forgiving and can be applied-removed-reapplied until you get it right. There are many video tutorials on YouTube showing how to apply PPF. I applied it myself to the front of my current car's hood and it came out great. Years later it still looks great and there are zero stone chips there where there usually are several. Start on easy sections and once you get the hang of it, you can try more contoured sections. You can't hurt anything, if you mess up, it peels right off with no issues. Once you learn how to apply it, you can do an entire car if you wanted to for very little in cost.

Concerning ceramic coatings, they're great as long as you understand their limitations. Unlike PPF, they offer no protection against heavy scratching or stone chips. They may help prevent light swirl marks, but that's about it. Ceramic coatings should be considered a superior alternative to waxing. They seal and protect the paint from environmental damage like wax, but they last far longer.

When ceramic coatings were first introduced, the early formulations were quite expensive and difficult to apply. It was best to have it done professionally. Expensive ceramic coatings still exist and you can still have them professionally applied but in recent years, manufacturers have developed formulations that are much easier to apply and can be done yourself if you want to save some considerable money. Such products are now readily available at low costs. Here is a recent test review of some done by the excellent Project Farm YouTube channel:

So, it's up to you to decide what route to take to protect the vehicle. I'm going to PPF my front end, including the headlights, and then use Turtle Wax 53409 Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating for the rest of the truck. I may also PPF any other areas where road debris can hit such as the rear quarter panels. Since I buy PPF in bulk and know how to apply it myself, this will cost very little.

 

[gilla81]

bump, anymore feedback out there guys.

PPF is the ultimate protection, but the cost can be very high. If you want to save your front end from inevitable rock chips, it definitely would be worth considering PPF.

The cost of PPF can be greatly mitigated by buying it in bulk, then it's quite reasonable. You can buy it on Amazon or directly from the manufactures for very little. It's only when you purchase pre-cut PPF or have it installed that it costs so much.

You can install PPF yourself, it's not as hard as it may seem. It takes some practice but it's doable. The material is amazingly forgiving and can be applied-removed-reapplied until you get it right. There are many video tutorials on YouTube showing how to apply PPF. I applied it myself to the front of my current car's hood and it came out great. Years later it still looks great and there are zero stone chips there where there usually are several. Start on easy sections and once you get the hang of it, you can try more contoured sections. You can't hurt anything, if you mess up, it peels right off with no issues. Once you learn how to apply it, you can do an entire car if you wanted to for very little in cost.

Concerning ceramic coatings, they're great as long as you understand their limitations. Unlike PPF, they offer no protection against heavy scratching or stone chips. They may help prevent light swirl marks, but that's about it. Ceramic coatings should be considered a superior alternative to waxing. They seal and protect the paint from environmental damage like wax, but they last far longer.

When ceramic coatings were first introduced, the early formulations were quite expensive and difficult to apply. It was best to have it done professionally. Expensive ceramic coatings still exist and you can still have them professionally applied but in recent years, manufacturers have developed formulations that are much easier to apply and can be done yourself if you want to save some considerable money. Such products are now readily available at low costs. Here is a recent test review of some done by the excellent Project Farm YouTube channel:

So, it's up to you to decide what route to take to protect the vehicle. I'm going to PPF my front end, including the headlights, and then use Turtle Wax 53409 Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating for the rest of the truck. I may also PPF any other areas where road debris can hit such as the rear quarter panels. Since I buy PPF in bulk and know how to apply it myself, this will cost very little.

what ppf are you using? I think the brand this detail shop is Xpel Ultimate. It has self healing properties as well. It didn't sound cheap though. I think Kavaca is another brand I've heard of, again it didn't sound cheap.

 

[z0n3]

For painted bumpers I strongly recommend getting PPF. My 19 bighorn that I traded in used to look terrible from rock chips until I had them fixed and put XPEL PPF on it. I would also say PPF is more important than ceramic coating. The ceramic will help with keeping the vehicle cleaner, and slight resistance from swirls. However you can always get the ceramic a while after the PPF. It would not be advised to get PPF over top of a ceramic coating to begin with so I personally would start with PPF.

 

[LakesAZ]

A local detail shop sent me an offer on a premier 3 year ceramic pro coating with paint enhancement polish for $500. So my question is, is that a good deal and should I do it. Thanks in advance.

 

[gilla81]

Thanks for the feedback guys. My truck is currently at the detail shop to have the full front minus the fenders wrapped in Xpel ppf, and also a ceramic coating. I haven't decided yet, but it will likely be SB3 Alpha or SB3 Omega. I'm leaning towards the Alpha as it has a 5 year warranty compared to 2 years with the Omega. Barry Theal reps the SB3 line, and from my research that guy knows his stuff when it comes to detailing cars.

 

[gilla81]

A local detail shop sent me an offer on a premier 3 year ceramic pro coating with paint enhancement polish for $500. So my question is, is that a good deal and should I do it. Thanks in advance.

I've been researching this a lot over the last 2 weeks. What I've learned is it really comes down to the shop and their skill level more then the products being used. If someone does a crappy job during the paint correction and polishing steps the truck won't look good regardless of ceramic coating used.

As for Ceramic Pro, I'm sure it's a good product. I chose not to go that route because a lot of shops around here use it exclusively. It's the Kleenex, Coca-Cola brand of the ceramic coatings, everyone knows it. Which package is the 3 year? Bronze? The shops around here all go Sport, Bronze, Silver, and Gold. The gold being a 5 year warranty, I think silver is 2, Sport is 6 months. I don't know what bronze is.

With that said, your comment throws up a couple of red flags for me. I'm not sure Ceramic Pro actually has a product with a 3 year warranty, I could be wrong, but I don't think I am. If he is giving you inaccurate warranty timeframes, he must either be new to ceramic coating, or that product. The second flag is the price, $500 to do a truck seems really cheap. For comparison, the Ceramic Pro Gold package would be $2,000 here in Florida. For those reasons, I would do more research on the shop to make sure they are skilled. Not all detailers are created equal, and you get what you pay for.

One more thing to think about, I believe Ceramic Pro requires a yearly maintenance application of some kind of topcoat product. The fact that this product requires "maintenance" turned me away. A lot of other brands do not require this. The maintenance regimen for most brands is just don't wash it like an idiot or run it through a car wash of any kind. Going through a car wash is a sure way to void that warranty. I hope this helps.

 

[HAL9001]

bump, anymore feedback out there guys.

what ppf are you using? I think the brand this detail shop is Xpel Ultimate. It has self healing properties as well. It didn't sound cheap though. I think Kavaca is another brand I've heard of, again it didn't sound cheap.

What I did was email to several PPF companies asking for samples. I received enough top-line samples to do the front of the hood, mirrors, lights and front bumper for free.

For the RAM I'm purchasing, I will probably go with XPEL.

 

[du4life25]

Has anyone heard of Surface Science? My dealer just asked if I'd be interested in it. They typically charge $1495 but would drop it to $695 and it comes with a 5 year interior stain and paint protection warranty. I've never heard of it but I'm also a bit of a newbie at the coatings and PPF's.

 

[KRField]

Has anyone heard of Surface Science? My dealer just asked if I'd be interested in it. They typically charge $1495 but would drop it to $695 and it comes with a 5 year interior stain and paint protection warranty. I've never heard of it but I'm also a bit of a newbie at the coatings and PPF's.

Money is better spent elsewhere. It is nothing more than a paint sealant. I can almost guarantee they will not do any polishing prior to application.


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[HAL9001]

Has anyone heard of Surface Science? My dealer just asked if I'd be interested in it. They typically charge $1495 but would drop it to $695 and it comes with a 5 year interior stain and paint protection warranty. I've never heard of it but I'm also a bit of a newbie at the coatings and PPF's.

For that kind of money, I would definitely go with PPF. PPF is far superior to ceramic coatings in every way. PPF enhances the looks, effectively protects against rock chips and body dings, effectively protects against even deep scratches, and completely and permanently seals the paint against all environmental dirt and contaminants. Ceramic coatings are very long-lasting but don't provide much more protection than a modern polymer wax.

I would not spend more than $500 for a ceramic coating and that's only if I wanted it done professionally. I simply plan on applying Turtle Wax 53409 Hybrid Solutions Ceramic Spray Coating. It's very highly rated and costs all of $15. Then I'll apply PPF to all areas that may experience rock chipping such as the front bumper, the front of the hood, and the rear quarter panels. This combination plan has worked exceptionally well on my current vehicle and is reasonable in price.

You can buy pre-cut PPF for RAMs and for most sections, it's easy to apply. Almost anyone can do it. If you have the money, you can have it applied professionally. If you spend some time learning how to apply bulk PPF, you can cover your entire truck with it for a surprisingly low cost.

​

 

[gilla81]

Protecting the "front facing" areas with PPF will definitely offer superior protection against rock chips and bugs. But ceramic coating will offer protection to the other areas of the truck against swirls and make cleaning easier. As a fellow Black Diamond Crystal Pearl owner, the ceramic coating really helps with washing and protection. As @PurpleRT mentioned, if you are able to do both ceramic coating to the whole vehicle and PPF to the front facing areas, it would give you very effective protection.

I ended up going this route. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

[gilla81]

Has anyone heard of Surface Science? My dealer just asked if I'd be interested in it. They typically charge $1495 but would drop it to $695 and it comes with a 5 year interior stain and paint protection warranty. I've never heard of it but I'm also a bit of a newbie at the coatings and PPF's.

I haven’t heard of it but f it’s coming from the dealership I’d say your probably better off saving your money and going to a detail shop. It might cost a little bit more, but will be far superior.

 

[securityguy]

I am a die-hard Xpel fan and have all of my vehicles wrapped and have done so for about 15 years. My 2019 was wrapped and looked like it came off the dealers lot after two years of driving. My Limited goes in on Monday to have the entire front protected...front bumper, under headlight facia and grill. Also having the door edge protectors and door handle cups installed as well. Owner is a friend and does all of the high-end cars in town (Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Audi, MB, etc.) He's charging me $475, which is a great deal, and his craftsmanship is amazing! I am not a ceramic fan...way too expensive and won't protect anything at all. You can buy kits for under $100 that are excellent and just do it yourself versus paying $1000-$1500 to have it done professionally. Just my $.02

 

[LakesAZ]

I am a die-hard Xpel fan and have all of my vehicles wrapped and have done so for about 15 years. My 2019 was wrapped and looked like it came off the dealers lot after two years of driving. My Limited goes in on Monday to have the entire front protected...front bumper, under headlight facia and grill. Also having the door edge protectors and door handle cups installed as well. Owner is a friend and does all of the high-end cars in town (Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, Audi, MB, etc.) He's charging me $475, which is a great deal, and his craftsmanship is amazing! I am not a ceramic fan...way too expensive and won't protect anything at all. You can buy kits for under $100 that are excellent and just do it yourself versus paying $1000-$1500 to have it done professionally. Just my $.02

Wow that is a fantastic price on the Xpel, I wish I had a friend in the business. And you are right the best route is the PPF for long term paint protection. The Ceramic coating only gets you a super shine and makes washing a bit easier. But since I have a silver truck washing is not a problem as a black truck would be.

 

[dtlrshp]

As a shop owner, my recommendation is to PPF as much as you can afford, with priority going towards forward facing panels. You can always correct and coat a car later down the road, but you can't really make rock chips disappear. That said, my truck is fully PPF'd and coated on top; takes 20 minutes to wash and dry it, and I don't worry about having to be gentle with it.

 

[Eltaco]

As much as I love my truck, I made the mistake of buying it in Black Diamond Crystal, as well. Still love it when it’s clean, but 90% of the time it has hand prints or drawings on the side from my kids. I could go 6mo without washing my white truck without being bothered by it, but I can detect dust on this black truck just from a day of driving.

I’ve tried the TurtleWax Hybrid Ceramic spray and wash, and that stuff seems to attract dirt even faster. Looks great when freshly cleaned but otherwise I can’t stand it.

Is there any coating that repels dirt buildup?

I’ve seriously contemplated just wrapping the entire truck a different color. Such a petty thing to be concerned about, but this will certainly be my last black vehicle.