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Overheating While Towing in Mountains

H3DX

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I recently bought a RAM1500 Hemi 5.7 3.92 4x4 to tow our travel trailer from Denver to west slope and Utah. We hoped to make ~6 round trips per year (24 ascents over Vail Pass + Ike Tunnel). Made 2 runs so far and it's a FAIL. Truck now has 1300 miles on it and I got the Engine Temperature High warning on both Vail and Ike. The load is a Little Guy (3150lbs dry) with ~600lbs of stuff in it, and a payload (people and toys) of about 600 pounds. Tongue weight is ~350. Not a heavy load, I thought. Tried to maintain a reasonable speed going uphill of 55mpg (speed limit is 65, and many trailer rigs were doing that). Pretty near the top of the passes, gauges read (249, 199, 275) for coolant, tranny, oil. I recovered from the coolant warning by turning ac off, heater up to the max, and slowing to 40. Coolant went down to 228 in 20 seconds , but oil stayed high (270, no oil temp warning) until we started the descent.

I assume this is not normal, and perhaps dangerous to engine? After the first fail, it went in for warranty service - they found nothing wrong.

Do I have a lemon, or is the design such that you can't run at 300hp for 10 minutes? The latter would be pathetic.

Too bad because I really like the truck. Gets 12mpg towing these big hills, is comfortable, can keep up good speed (though only for a short time before overheat).

Suggestions? Thanks.
 

Big Jim’s 1500

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In the last couple of weeks TFL Truck has done a video on over heating with a F150 and a Silverado 1500. Here’s the link to the Chevy video

Ford replied to TFL’s request of why the truck would overheat when it was towing under it’s max towing capacity. The answer probably won‘t surprise you but in a nutshell the max tow rating is based on ideal conditions, no hills, sea level and ambient temps.

Hope this helps.

Of course being an owner of a new 2021 Ram 1500 Laramie 5.7 w/3.92 I’m disappointed in the info you posted. I traded my 2017 2500 Laramie CTD even up for the new truck.
 

H3DX

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Max tow over 10K pounds, but only in ideal conditions, I understand that (crap advertising). But 3700 lbs? Doesn't come close to doubling the weight of the whole rig.

To think I traded in my 20 year old Tundra 4.7. OK, it could only pull our trailer at 33mph (and getting 6.5mpg), floored in first gear (near max rpm), up these types of passes. But the temperature gauge never moved off of normal.

I hope something (fixable) is wrong with my Ram. I am looking into adding a big external oil cooler, but that might void the warranty.
Will let dealer try to figure it out first. If I can keep coolant below 240, say, is it OK to climb hills with oil at 270? Scary.
 

GKIII

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Something seems off here, since TFL has made those runs in the 5th gen 1500 more than once without issue. I'm not quite worried about the integrity of the oil at 270 (yet) but that does seem very high even for these engines.
 

silver billet

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Yes those TFL videos are making the rounds on various forums.

In my truck, I've swapped out the watery oil for a full synthetic Redline 5w-30, which is actually very close to a 5w-40 and due to its makeup certainly stays thicker through the whole life of the oil than most -40w oils. Some guys have also replaced the tstat with a 180 degree so that it kicks on sooner and keeps the oil cooler. Others have gone so far as to remove fins from the moving grill (theres a technical name for that grill which escapes me at the moment) all to keep the engine cooler, but as far as I know they did that as a preventative measure not "after the fact" due to overheating.

Whatever you do; drop the standard oil and replace with a full synthetic (not a blend, but a full). Those temperatures you experienced are too high for regular oil.

My truck/oil has never been over 110 celcius (230 F) while towing anywhere between 5000 to 7000 pounds on the freeway, but I haven't climbed a hill like you have either so its impossible to compare. But I can't stress enough how important a high quality oil is while towing, the water that comes with it is designed for fuel effiency, not life of the engine while working it hard.

(Edit: changing the oil weight may void your warranty!!)
 

GKIII

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Yes those TFL videos are making the rounds on various forums.

In my truck, I've swapped out the watery oil for a full synthetic Redline 5w-30, which is actually very close to a 5w-40 and due to its makeup certainly stays thicker through the whole life of the oil than most -40w oils. Some guys have also replaced the tstat with a 180 degree so that it kicks on sooner and keeps the oil cooler. Others have gone so far as to remove fins from the moving grill (theres a technical name for that grill which escapes me at the moment) all to keep the engine cooler, but as far as I know they did that as a preventative measure not "after the fact" due to overheating.

Whatever you do; drop the standard oil and replace with a full synthetic (not a blend, but a full). Those temperatures you experienced are too high for regular oil.

My truck/oil has never been over 110 celcius (230 F) while towing anywhere between 5000 to 7000 pounds on the freeway, but I haven't climbed a hill like you have either so its impossible to compare. But I can't stress enough how important a high quality oil is while towing, the water that comes with it is designed for fuel effiency, not life of the engine while working it hard.

(Edit: changing the oil weight may void your warranty!!)
I 100% agree that moving to a high quality full synthetic is the first thing he should do, though I will politely disagree with using thicker oil. The tolerances of the motor were not stacked with a 30 weight oil in mind, you're just asking for more resistance (and therefore heat) throughout the system. There is a reason it will void your warranty if they find out.

Also, you are referring to the active grill shutters I believe (seen here).
 

silver billet

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I recently bought a RAM1500 Hemi 5.7 3.92 4x4 to tow our travel trailer from Denver to west slope and Utah. We hoped to make ~6 round trips per year (24 ascents over Vail Pass + Ike Tunnel). Made 2 runs so far and it's a FAIL. Truck now has 1300 miles on it and I got the Engine Temperature High warning on both Vail and Ike. The load is a Little Guy (3150lbs dry) with ~600lbs of stuff in it, and a payload (people and toys) of about 600 pounds. Tongue weight is ~350. Not a heavy load, I thought. Tried to maintain a reasonable speed going uphill of 55mpg (speed limit is 65, and many trailer rigs were doing that). Pretty near the top of the passes, gauges read (249, 199, 275) for coolant, tranny, oil. I recovered from the coolant warning by turning ac off, heater up to the max, and slowing to 40. Coolant went down to 228 in 20 seconds , but oil stayed high (270, no oil temp warning) until we started the descent.

I assume this is not normal, and perhaps dangerous to engine? After the first fail, it went in for warranty service - they found nothing wrong.

Do I have a lemon, or is the design such that you can't run at 300hp for 10 minutes? The latter would be pathetic.

Too bad because I really like the truck. Gets 12mpg towing these big hills, is comfortable, can keep up good speed (though only for a short time before overheat).

Suggestions? Thanks.

One other thing; what makes you say "overheat"? Did the truck cut power, did it warn you some way, or did you just see the engine temp and "freak out" (like I would too)?
 

silver billet

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I 100% agree that moving to a high quality full synthetic is the first thing he should do, though I will politely disagree with using thicker oil. The tolerances of the motor were not stacked with a 30 weight oil in mind, you're just asking for more resistance (and therefore heat) throughout the system. There is a reason it will void your warranty if they find out.

Also, you are referring to the active grill shutters I believe (seen here).

The hemi was designed with a 30 weight. Recent manuals (2014?) also said 30 weight was perfectly fine if you can't find 20 weight. Guys put 40 weight in them with no issues. The tolerances on the Hemi are very high, it was designed in early 2000's and only switched to 20 weight once MDS was bolted on. (my truck runs fine with 30w and MDS, as does 40w too, I just disable MDS because I don't like the system not because the oil I'm using prevents it from working).
 

silver billet

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Here is a good discussion:

(hopefully posting to that forum is allowed?)
 

GKIII

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The hemi was designed with a 30 weight. Recent manuals (2014?) also said 30 weight was perfectly fine if you can't find 20 weight. Guys put 40 weight in them with no issues. The tolerances on the Hemi are very high, it was designed in early 2000's and only switched to 20 weight once MDS was bolted on. (my truck runs fine with 30w and MDS, as does 40w too, I just disable MDS because I don't like the system not because the oil I'm using prevents it from working).
I'm not looking to get into an oil weight argument, just throwing a different perspective out there. I can't speak for FCA/Stellantis on this specific motor but I do know for a fact that engine tolerances are revised fairly frequently. It would not surprise me in the least if the tol stack for the early 2000s 5.7 was much looser than it is now. The tighter tolerances require those thinner oils, otherwise there's a lot of unnecessary viscous shear going on with the heavier lubricants.

OP use this information as you will.

I personally think there's an issue with your cooling system. You should not be throwing high motor temp alarms with such a small load.
 

silver billet

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I'm not looking to get into an oil weight argument, just throwing a different perspective out there. I can't speak for FCA/Stellantis on this specific motor but I do know for a fact that engine tolerances are revised fairly frequently. It would not surprise me in the least if the tol stack for the early 2000s 5.7 was much looser than it is now. The tighter tolerances require those thinner oils, otherwise there's a lot of unnecessary viscous shear going on with the heavier lubricants.

OP use this information as you will.

I personally think there's an issue with your cooling system. You should not be throwing high motor temp alarms with such a small load.

All I know, is that I read that the tolerances haven't changed between 2009 (when the engine was last reworked and we got MDS + VVT) and today. It's the same engine for the last 11 years, yet the manual at one point in this past decade was still saying that -30w was perfectly fine.

I won't argue this any further either, it's far outside my wheelhouse, but I agree that OP's cooling system could use a look. Temps will climb above 250 pulling that load up a hill, but it should be able to cool itself yet with even double that load.
 

blakei

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I recently pulled over the Ike gauntlet towing 8000 lb TT. Ambient was around 60 (had some rain) and my temps were not that high. On hot days (100F+) up grades I may see 235F for coolant and have seen 272 for oil. Usually the fan kicks on and pulls coolant temp down, the oil stays high until I’m over the grade. I back off and slow from ~55 once I hit those temps. But have never received a high temp warning on the dash.
 

Redfour5

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I recently bought a RAM1500 Hemi 5.7 3.92 4x4 to tow our travel trailer from Denver to west slope and Utah. We hoped to make ~6 round trips per year (24 ascents over Vail Pass + Ike Tunnel). Made 2 runs so far and it's a FAIL. Truck now has 1300 miles on it and I got the Engine Temperature High warning on both Vail and Ike. The load is a Little Guy (3150lbs dry) with ~600lbs of stuff in it, and a payload (people and toys) of about 600 pounds. Tongue weight is ~350. Not a heavy load, I thought. Tried to maintain a reasonable speed going uphill of 55mpg (speed limit is 65, and many trailer rigs were doing that). Pretty near the top of the passes, gauges read (249, 199, 275) for coolant, tranny, oil. I recovered from the coolant warning by turning ac off, heater up to the max, and slowing to 40. Coolant went down to 228 in 20 seconds , but oil stayed high (270, no oil temp warning) until we started the descent.

I assume this is not normal, and perhaps dangerous to engine? After the first fail, it went in for warranty service - they found nothing wrong.

Do I have a lemon, or is the design such that you can't run at 300hp for 10 minutes? The latter would be pathetic.

Too bad because I really like the truck. Gets 12mpg towing these big hills, is comfortable, can keep up good speed (though only for a short time before overheat).

Suggestions? Thanks.
There is something wrong with your truck. As mentioned TFL has taken a 3.21 all they way up maxed out on payload and towing capability and they were very pleasantly surprised. I'd stand my ground with the dealer. The weight of your trailer is negligible.
 

Scram1500

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Maybe the active grill shutters are malfunctioning and restricting air flow. I'd say you left the parking brake on but that's not possible with these trucks
 

scottmoyer

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Remember, TFL has tested all of these trucks on the IKE, fully loaded, but it was also rainy and snowy. I'm sure the cooler temps during their runs are why they didn't see any temp issues. The most recent video from them regarding overheating is with 95* ambient temps. Oil and trans coolers should benefit. Do we not have those anymore? TFL said the GM truck doesn't.
 

silver billet

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Remember, TFL has tested all of these trucks on the IKE, fully loaded, but it was also rainy and snowy. I'm sure the cooler temps during their runs are why they didn't see any temp issues. The most recent video from them regarding overheating is with 95* ambient temps. Oil and trans coolers should benefit. Do we not have those anymore? TFL said the GM truck doesn't.

I don't think our coolers are external like they were in the past. Instead we have a system which both heats and cools the transmission (heats it on a cold start until temps climb to proper amount) and it plugs into the main rad. So yes our transmissions are definitely cooled, can't speak for the GM but it probably uses a similar system, I don't think any truck manufacturer would just drop a transmission on a truck, rate it for > 8000 pounds, and do nothing to cool it in some way.
 

IvoryHemi

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I don't think any truck manufacturer would just drop a transmission on a truck, rate it for > 8000 pounds, and do nothing to cool it in some way.

Toyota removed their transmission cooler from 2019+ Tundra’s to cut costs
 

Richard320

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I don't think our coolers are external like they were in the past. Instead we have a system which both heats and cools the transmission (heats it on a cold start until temps climb to proper amount) and it plugs into the main rad. So yes our transmissions are definitely cooled, can't speak for the GM but it probably uses a similar system, I don't think any truck manufacturer would just drop a transmission on a truck, rate it for > 8000 pounds, and do nothing to cool it in some way.
We have an external cooler. It's up front with the AC condenser. https://www.mymoparparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-condenser-and-trans-cooler-cooler-68312697ac
 

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