More fuel questions - Top Tier and high octane

[bigoldthor]

I know there are lots of fuel/octane threads out there, and I've read most of them. But I haven't really seen these two particular issues addressed directly, or I just missed them.

1. Do you make it a point to use only Top Tier fuels, as long as you can get it where you are at the time? If so, will you pay a premium for it? I try to use Shell (or Marathon) which are both ubiquitous in my area. Others are not so much. I'll pay more for Top Tier unless it's outrageously more expensive, which I haven't really found to be the case. What I HAVE seen to be significantly more expensive are Top Tier 89-91 octane fuels that are free of ethanol/alcohol. They seem to cost $.50 or more per gallon than the 10% ethanol blends.

2. I know the manual recommends 89 (and that's what I have run exclusively up to now.) I also know using anything higher doesn't bring any benefits...you're just throwing your money away. But if a Top Tier 91 octane cost the same as a Top Tier 89 octane, would you care? Would you put the higher octane in just because they're both the same price and both are Top Tier?

 

[SpeedyV]

We have QT all over this area - Top Tier at a great price. I run either 89 or 93, depending on my mood. I don’t drive a whole lot, so I tend to put in premium in the hopes of getting more shelf life out of it.

 

[Richard320]

I always use top-tier, which is easy, because the closest gas station to me has it and is always competitive. The next closest tier ones are kept reasonable by the proximity of Costco. I've stayed with Tier 1 for years and years. Twenty years ago I used to buy cheap gasoline but I was dangerously low once and filled up with some Shell gasoline. The mileage in my Wrangler went up from 14 to 16. I tried it again and again and it held. Switched back, mileage dropped. It wasn't a fluke. Did the math.... it was cheaper to buy the more expensive stuff.

It shouldn't make a difference since they all start with the same base (see below) but for me it did. I've avoided the cheap stuff ever since.

As for octane, generally I run 89 because they ask for it and because I don't drive all that much so it costs me maybe a buck a week more. But sometimes I forget and hit 87 because that's what the wife's car takes and I always fill it for her.

Going back 25 years or so when I worked for a big oil company....

There was Tier 1, aka Top Tier. It not only prevented deposits on valves, it would dissolve existing deposits. At the time, it was only Chevron, Shell, and Texaco. There are more now.

Then Tier Two, which wouldn't leave deposits but didn't remove any left by lesser fuels. That was the other name brands.

Last was Tier three, which may or may not have any additives. That's what the independents who bought their fuel on the spot market would sell. Which was part of the reason they were always so much cheaper.

Where I was working there was a huge oil tank facility that all the refineries fed via pipelines. They had a standard blend so it didn't matter whose gas ended up in whose tank. They added the proprietary stuff -- Techroline was one -- to the tanks if they were popular enough to have their own, or they added it to the tanker truck when it was loaded if they didn't have their own dedicated tanks. Or not, if it was going to some no-name indie. But you can be sure that that indie who may have bought a load from Chevron wasn't selling Chevron gasoline. They might have made it, but it wasn't their secret formula.

 

[Eltaco]

I have to admit this is all new info to me... I’ve purchased gas to this point only based on convenience or lowest price if I have multiple options on the same street corner. I must say that I ran my Tacoma to 190k miles with no apparent ill effects.

So a couple of questions:
How do I distinguish which stations are top-tier?

Are all full sized trucks requiring 89 octane? That’s a bit surprising and disappointing since I’ve run 87 on everything else for my entire lifetime and suddenly now find I need to spend $0.40-0.50 more per gallon on this Hemi, which already has abysmal mpg.

 

[Richard320]

I have to admit this is all new info to me... I’ve purchased gas to this point only based on convenience or lowest price if I have multiple options on the same street corner. I must say that I ran my Tacoma to 190k miles with no apparent ill effects.

So a couple of questions:
How do I distinguish which stations are top-tier?

Are all full sized trucks requiring 89 octane? That’s a bit surprising and disappointing since I’ve run 87 on everything else for my entire lifetime and suddenly now find I need to spend $0.40-0.50 more per gallon on this Hemi, which already has abysmal mpg.

If they're top-tier, it will say so on their advertising. As far as I know, the 89 octane is a Hemi thing.

 

[DesertRebel]

I have to admit this is all new info to me... I’ve purchased gas to this point only based on convenience or lowest price if I have multiple options on the same street corner. I must say that I ran my Tacoma to 190k miles with no apparent ill effects.

So a couple of questions:
How do I distinguish which stations are top-tier?

Are all full sized trucks requiring 89 octane? That’s a bit surprising and disappointing since I’ve run 87 on everything else for my entire lifetime and suddenly now find I need to spend $0.40-0.50 more per gallon on this Hemi, which already has abysmal mpg.

It will say "top tier" on the pump itself.

 

[bigoldthor]

I have to admit this is all new info to me... I’ve purchased gas to this point only based on convenience or lowest price if I have multiple options on the same street corner. I must say that I ran my Tacoma to 190k miles with no apparent ill effects.

So a couple of questions:
How do I distinguish which stations are top-tier?

Are all full sized trucks requiring 89 octane? That’s a bit surprising and disappointing since I’ve run 87 on everything else for my entire lifetime and suddenly now find I need to spend $0.40-0.50 more per gallon on this Hemi, which already has abysmal mpg.

Here is a link to current top tier fuel brands. https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

You can obviously link around there to learn more about it if you want.

Technically, Ram doesn’t “require” 89, but they recommend it. You can read about it in the manual. 87 will work fine in most cases, unless you start getting noticeable knocking and pinging or degraded performance.


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[bigoldthor]

It will say "top tier" on the pump itself.

While that’s usually true, I have seen some smaller stations that are top tier brands without any markings. I wonder why.


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[Benca101]

...
Technically, Ram doesn’t “require” 89, but they recommend it. You can read about it in the manual. 87 will work fine in most cases, unless you start getting noticeable knocking and pinging or degraded performance.

HEMIs are very sensitive to octane. I can’t speak for how strictly defined ours are to the HEMI spec, but I do know that I get 10-20% better mileage with 89 octane. Enough that in some cases, I save spending 20 more cents on 89 vs 87. Here in commie California, gas is almost $4 a gallon, so that 20 cent spread is worth it for 15 MPG versus the 13 MPG with 87.

 

[bigoldthor]

HEMIs are very sensitive to octane. I can’t speak for how strictly defined ours are to the HEMI spec, but I do know that I get 10-20% better mileage with 89 octane. Enough that in some cases, I save spending 20 more cents on 89 vs 87. Here in commie California, gas is almost $4 a gallon, so that 20 cent spread is worth it for 15 MPG versus the 13 MPG with 87.

I haven't really run any 87 to find out the difference...only 89 since I bought it less than a month ago. But based on what I've read on this forum, I'm surprised to see you're getting 10-20% mpg improvement between the two. That's pretty significant and would be a no-brainer for any thinking person waffling between the two. And even though your gas is much more expensive than ours here in SW Indiana, our spread between 87 and 89 is greater...on the order of $.25 to $.40 more per gallon.

FTR, I'm getting around 16 mpg in probably 2/3 highway, 1/3 city driving, but it's still got less than 2k miles on it. Hopefully that improves as it gets broken in.

 

[Benca101]

I should run some 87 again now that I have a few thousand miles. But I had the same reaction.. why would anyone run 87? At least here in CA. Easy to do the math. A 40 cent spread at 2-3 bucks a gallon might change my habits.

 

[bigoldthor]

I should run some 87 again now that I have a few thousand miles. But I had the same reaction.. why would anyone run 87? At least here in CA. Easy to do the math. A 40 cent spread at 2-3 bucks a gallon might change my habits.

Currently at my favorite local station (Shell brand), it's $2.33 for 89 and $2.03 for 87. That's a 15% premium. I still pay it, but I'd be happier it were more like 10% or less. I don't know much about gasoline production, but it's hard to believe it costs them 15% more to produce. Oh well.

 

[mikeru82]

I ran 87 in my 2017 Rebel, and I've been running 87 in my 2020 Laramie. Mostly because I didn't realize that 89 was recommended. I'm not driving my truck much at this time, and haven't had to fill the tank since finding out about the 89 recommendation. I'm skeptical about it making a 20% difference in fuel economy, but definitely willing to try. I'm seeing just under 15 mpg right now, with about 2600 miles on the truck.

 

[zelmo]

Here is a link to current top tier fuel brands. https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

You can obviously link around there to learn more about it if you want.

This is new to me also. Thank you for posting that link.

Interesting that Costco is on the list but Sam's Club is not. How do you learn about a station that is not on the Top Tier list?

 

[Kooch80]

I know there are lots of fuel/octane threads out there, and I've read most of them. But I haven't really seen these two particular issues addressed directly, or I just missed them.

1. Do you make it a point to use only Top Tier fuels, as long as you can get it where you are at the time? If so, will you pay a premium for it? I try to use Shell (or Marathon) which are both ubiquitous in my area. Others are not so much. I'll pay more for Top Tier unless it's outrageously more expensive, which I haven't really found to be the case. What I HAVE seen to be significantly more expensive are Top Tier 89-91 octane fuels that are free of ethanol/alcohol. They seem to cost $.50 or more per gallon than the 10% ethanol blends.

2. I know the manual recommends 89 (and that's what I have run exclusively up to now.) I also know using anything higher doesn't bring any benefits...you're just throwing your money away. But if a Top Tier 91 octane cost the same as a Top Tier 89 octane, would you care? Would you put the higher octane in just because they're both the same price and both are Top Tier?

Right now near me Costco premium is cheaper than anyone else's regular gas. So I am now running premium in my truck. I normally run the recommended mid grade but have no problem going up, especially when it's cheaper

 

[bigoldthor]

This is new to me also. Thank you for posting that link.

Interesting that Costco is on the list but Sam's Club is not. How do you learn about a station that is not on the Top Tier list?

The only way I know of is to go to that brand's website and see what they have to say, or just do some general internet searching. Most likely, if they even mention fuel, you'll get corporate speak about "quality" and how they "stand behind" what they sell. But afaik, Top Tier is the only independent fuel rating service out there, so if they're not on the list, either they don't care, don't feel it's necessary, or are just buying whatever is cheapest and selling it as their brand.

I believe the add packs are generally added somewhere between the distribution tank to as late as the point when the trucks actually offload the fuel into the station's underground tanks. So I assume they put in whatever add pack is supposed to be put in at that time. I don't *think* they leave the refinery or the distribution facilities ready to use in their final formulations.

 

[zelmo]

I saw a TV commercial today for a regional convenience store chain. They were hyping the fact that the sold Top Tier gas but that are not on the list provided above. Does that mean you need to find out who is supplying the gasoline to the store when they are not on the list?

 

[bigoldthor]

I saw a TV commercial today for a regional convenience store chain. They were hyping the fact that the sold Top Tier gas but that are not on the list provided above. Does that mean you need to find out who is supplying the gasoline to the store when they are not on the list?

I doubt they would tell you where they get their gas. Most likely, they are buying it from the "best value" distributor at the time of purchase. I'm not sure how they can claim to sell Top Tier if they aren't on Top Tier's list, unless the list isn't up to date, e.g. they *just* got approved. I don't suppose you feel comfortable sharing the name of the chain?

 

[zelmo]

I doubt they would tell you where they get their gas. Most likely, they are buying it from the "best value" distributor at the time of purchase. I'm not sure how they can claim to sell Top Tier if they aren't on Top Tier's list, unless the list isn't up to date, e.g. they *just* got approved. I don't suppose you feel comfortable sharing the name of the chain?

Not sure if this is allowed on the site. If it is mods can take it down.

The chain is Rutters. They have around 70 stores over three states. Here is a link to their site and Top Tier info. Rutters Gasoline

I don't know how long this has been there. I just noticed it as I just learned about Top Tier.

 

[Jtr]

Grabbed a tank of 91 with no alcohol for $2.20 here the other day. Usually I am a 87 or 89 guy with the added ethanol but with these prices I see, it's an easy decision.