F150 Lightning

[HotHareSpey]

Hey guys & dolls,

As a very happy owner of my loaded Laramie CC With ORG and every possible option, getting up to 24mpg on my non etorque V8 if I drive 60-65mpg and 17-18mpg at 70-74mpg, I can’t ignore the new Ford.

I love my RAM, but an all electric 1500 series would save me big time $$$. Plus more storage room and all the goodies and a 0-60 of 4.5 seconds would just be loads of fun

thoughts?

 

[IvoryHemi]

F-150 Lightning

I watched the reveal live last night...very impressive truck. Wish RAM would step it up as Ford and GM are doing. https://www.motortrend.com/news/2022-ford-f-150-lightning-electric-first-look-review/?wc_mid=4035:21364&wc_rid=4035:90716&_wcsid=E945328E7223AE9EEFB4B11D79EDB7C6EB17B96A6C89A626

5thgenrams.com

 

[NoMoFoMoCo]

Has super cool functionality, but I've seen my Sister-in-law stress about finding a charging station for her Tesla while we've had the families out on spontaneous outings. Plus, I'll never forget driving through a wildfire evacuation neighborhood and seeing all the EVs parked in the driveways while SUVs and Fullsized trucks were driving out of town. Just things that made me really think about EVs and how I use my truck.

 

[Zig10]

Hybrid, absolutely. Electric - not the way I use my truck. I am not stopping every 150-200 miles for 30-40 minutes each on a 600 mile trip while towing a boat. Just not going to work.

Put a fuel cell in it and fill a hydrogen tank in 7-10 minutes, I am all in.

If all you do is commute, good luck with your electric car, but don't fool yourself that you're saving the planet by doing so unless you plug it into a purely solar charging station. Normal grid power is at best 30-33% efficient, and the normal midwest-northeast fuel mix produces within about 10% of the same greenhouse gas measured well to wheel on equivalent vehicles.

 

[JoeCo]

F150 Fireball* would seem more appropriate from some of those ev crash videos.

 

[Scram1500]

How fast does it slow down? Getting 3 tons of truck up to 60 in 4.5 seconds sounds dangerous. It also sounds wasteful. Maybe the if the 0-60 was around 7 seconds the range would be futher and its remote emissions footprint would be smaller

 

[BowDown]

How fast does it slow down? Getting 3 tons of truck up to 60 in 4.5 seconds sounds dangerous. It also sounds wasteful. Maybe the if the 0-60 was around 7 seconds the range would be futher and its remote emissions footprint would be smaller

This is a joke right?

 

[Scram1500]

This is a joke right?

No

 

[WXman]

Hey guys & dolls,

As a very happy owner of my loaded Laramie CC With ORG and every possible option, getting up to 24mpg on my non etorque V8 if I drive 60-65mpg and 17-18mpg at 70-74mpg, I can’t ignore the new Ford.

I love my RAM, but an all electric 1500 series would save me big time $$$. Plus more storage room and all the goodies and a 0-60 of 4.5 seconds would just be loads of fun

thoughts?

Please explain how a truck that costs $20-25 per charge and realistically is only going to see <250 miles per charge and costs substantially more than a standard truck equipped the same way is going to "save big time $$$". I want to see this.....

 

[SpeedyV]

Please explain how a truck that costs $20-25 per charge and realistically is only going to see <250 miles per charge and costs substantially more than a standard truck equipped the same way is going to "save big time $$$". I want to see this.....

Questions:

• Does it cost "substantially" more than a "standard truck equipped the same way"?
• Have you done the math on "cost per mile" of electricity vs. gasoline for this vehicle?
• Have you factored in routine maintenance (or lack thereof)?

I haven't done the homework, but I presume you have if you are challenging this notion. I'm guessing the scales tip in favor of the EV. Don't forget that (for now, but maybe not for long) electricity providers offer "free nights and weekends" plans that look VERY attractive for EV owners

 

[WXman]

Questions:

• Does it cost "substantially" more than a "standard truck equipped the same way"?
• Have you done the math on "cost per mile" of electricity vs. gasoline for this vehicle?
• Have you factored in routine maintenance (or lack thereof)?

I haven't done the homework, but I presume you have if you are challenging this notion. I'm guessing the scales tip in favor of the EV. Don't forget that (for now, but maybe not for long) electricity providers offer "free nights and weekends" plans that look VERY attractive for EV owners

Cost per mile is exactly what I'm getting at. $25 charge to go (hopefully) 250 miles is $0.10 per mile. Obviously if a guy hauls or tows, this cost per mile is going to go up exponentially with an EV.

Compare that to a gasoline or diesel F-150 that is around $0.11 to $0.12 per mile, has double the range, and sees a much smaller decrease in range when loaded or towing.

Obviously there are no oil changes. But there are still fluids onboard, and electric wiring, cable lugs, and motors don't last forever. Occasionally an engine will fail and cost several thousand to replace. How much is a replacement of a 1,800 lb. battery pack that fails? $10k? $15k? What about those dual electric motors? Are the brushed or brushless motors? Brushes need replacement from time to time.

I think that with these EVs, the costs are not going to be less. They're only going to be different.

 

[SpeedyV]

Cost per mile is exactly what I'm getting at. $25 charge to go (hopefully) 250 miles is $0.10 per mile. Obviously if a guy hauls or tows, this cost per mile is going to go up exponentially with an EV. Compare that to a gasoline or diesel F-150 that is around $0.11 to $0.12 per mile, has double the range, and sees a much smaller decrease in range when loaded or towing.

OK, I'll bite. Rumor has it that the larger battery pack for the F-150 might be 150kWh. Even if we could drop it to 0% and fully recharge it, that's only $16.50 at my electricity rate. $16.50 for 250 miles = $0.066 per mile.

In the lifetime of my Ram (17K+ miles), I've averaged 14.6 mpg. The lowest midgrade gas price in Fort Worth is $2.74/gallon. So 250 miles takes 17.123 gallons, a cost of $46.92 or $0.1877 per mile.

Theoretically (but based on real numbers), the F-150 Lighting will cost 65% less per mile than my Ram. Even if we go really conservative and say that the F-150 won't achieve its full range, the equivalent fuel cost will be half of what I'm paying now.

Obviously there are no oil changes. But there are still fluids onboard, and electric wiring, cable lugs, and motors don't last forever. Occasionally an engine will fail and cost several thousand to replace. How much is a replacement of a 1,800 lb. battery pack that fails? $10k? $15k? What about those dual electric motors? Are the brushed or brushless motors? Brushes need replacement from time to time.

There are no oil changes, far fewer moving parts to wear and break, far fewer hoses and belts to deteriorate and break, etc., etc. Ford states that they expect scheduled maintenance costs to be "more than 40% less" over 8 years or 100K miles than an F-150 equipped with the 2.7L EcoBoost engine.

You're right that there are some unknowns with respect to the motors and battery pack. Those are the biggest risks, to be honest, although we'll learn a lot about reliability during the initial warranty period for these trucks. But again, there are far fewer points of potential failure overall. You mentioned a replacement engine, but what about a replacement transmission, water pump, alternator, etc.?

***

Unrelated: I can't believe nobody's talking about the fact that the truck will have an IRS (vs. the live axle in standard F-150s). Between the low center of gravity (due to batteries) and IRS, this truck might handle surprisingly well!

 

[tidefan1967]

The absolute base price on the new Lightning is going to be $42K and that’s for the least expensive model. The XLT base will be around $55K and of course these numbers are without any options. IN reality the base model with some options is going to be $50 grand plus and the XLT probably $65K. A lariat or higher trim will be like 75 grand.

You can get a whole lot of Ram for a hell of a lot less money so how much money is not buying gas really going to save you and the maintenance is actually pretty inexpensive on the Ram if you do your own like I do.

 

[silver billet]

At some point you're going to be crusing/towing with your shiny electric truck and you will run out of fuel, or be desperately looking to top up somewhere.

I cannot have that hanging over my head. If I was into Ford (which I'm not, they are the worst trucks at this point) I'd get the powerboost since at least you're not at the mercy of charging stations.

How many times do you want to be close to near panic looking for a station, before you admit you bought the wrong truck? What is that worth to you? Or knowing that you're truck has limitations that a different one doesn't have? It bottles the mind, but I guess if you're just taking your kids to soccer practise every day...

You can't go camping/towing with an electric truck. Not yet anyway.

 

[BowDown]

How fast does it slow down? Getting 3 tons of truck up to 60 in 4.5 seconds sounds dangerous. It also sounds wasteful. Maybe the if the 0-60 was around 7 seconds the range would be futher and its remote emissions footprint would be smaller

This is a joke right?

No

Teslas weight 3500 to 5300lbs (Model X) and none have any issues with braking nor are they dangerous, that's relatively the same weight as a 5th gen Ram, mine weighs 5300 lbs.
The lighting will use regenerative braking the same as Tesla and Porsche for that matter whos vehicles weigh the same and they are perfectly fine. The issue isn't the car, it's the idiot behind the wheel.

 

[BowDown]

The absolute base price on the new Lightning is going to be $42K and that’s for the least expensive model. The XLT base will be around $55K and of course these numbers are without any options. IN reality the base model with some options is going to be $50 grand plus and the XLT probably $65K. A lariat or higher trim will be like 75 grand.

You can get a whole lot of Ram for a hell of a lot less money so how much money is not buying gas really going to save you and the maintenance is actually pretty inexpensive on the Ram if you do your own like I do.

Base price is 39K but factor in the Federal Govt incentives and that's another $7500 off (for most large vehicles)

Tax Incentives

Find out how you can save money through Federal tax incentives on your purchase of a new plug-in hybrid or electric vehicle!

fueleconomy.gov

You could be in a XLT for 45K before optioning it up, factor in the incentives and the F150 Lighting becomes a lot more attractive, as if it weren't before.
Think of how many municipalities will buy Lighting base trucks with 250-300 mile ranges, charge them over night and repeat

 

[BowDown]

At some point you're going to be crusing/towing with your shiny electric truck and you will run out of fuel, or be desperately looking to top up somewhere.

I cannot have that hanging over my head. If I was into Ford (which I'm not, they are the worst trucks at this point) I'd get the powerboost since at least you're not at the mercy of charging stations.

How many times do you want to be close to near panic looking for a station, before you admit you bought the wrong truck? What is that worth to you? Or knowing that you're truck has limitations that a different one doesn't have? It bottles the mind, but I guess if you're just taking your kids to soccer practise every day...

You can't go camping/towing with an electric truck. Not yet anyway.

I disagree, the range on the F150 is purported to be 300 miles, whos driving 300 miles in a day on a regular basis? I could drive that truck from Dallas to Houston on one charge and surely find a spot to recharge in houston for 90 min.
A cross country vacation trip isn't what this truck is intended for nor realistic of how vehicles are used 99% of the time.

 

[silver billet]

I disagree, the range on the F150 is purported to be 300 miles, whos driving 300 miles in a day on a regular basis? I could drive that truck from Dallas to Houston on one charge and surely find a spot to recharge in houston for 90 min.
A cross country vacation trip isn't what this truck is intended for nor realistic of how vehicles are used 99% of the time.

Camping is just one example; you can't charge up on BLM/Crown land, nor can you charge up at the campground. And you're not getting 300 miles while towing a 7000 pound trailer, if you get even half of that consider yourself very fortunate. Tesla SUV range drops to a third while towing some puny run about.

When I went camping last year, I had range anxiety in my hemi; I get about 3 hours out of a tank (IIRC), but there are many stretches in country areas where gas is at least 80+ km away from the last one. I cannot imagine trying the same thing in an all electric truck, I'm already thinking about swapping to a diesel for this reason.

Some of you are poo-pooing this as if all the answers are there; but they're not, not for many truck users. And I suspect once you live with it for a year things will not seem near as rosy.

For a daily commuter, it's probably fine. For many of us who work our trucks, it's simply not viable yet.

 

[SpeedyV]

For a daily commuter, it's probably fine. For many of us who work our trucks, it's simply not viable yet.

This kind of says it all. For the 90%+ of truck owners, EVs are very quickly becoming attractive. For those few that frequently go “heavy” or “far”, more range is needed.

Interestingly, range is likely the only limitation. EVs have the potential to offer a massive power advantage, low center of gravity, more flexible vehicle configurations, etc.

I’m not partial to Ford, and I’ve never owned one. But it seems clear that this F-150 will be an important litmus test for the future of EVs. It’ll be more of a mass market vehicle than the GMC Hummer, for example (as amazing as that beast appears to be). I’m tempted to put in a reservation just to stay in the loop.

 

[silver billet]

Agreed that it's probably more attractive to commuters. But even there, can you imagine if you're distracted while going home and you forget to plug it back in? Or you lived in Texas this past year without electricity for a week; sorry boss, can't come into work because my battery is dead. That's why I think it sounds more workable/attractive on paper than if you actually lived with it day in and out for a year. All these little scenarios one doesn't think about until it happens and then it's like "hmm". When I need extra range for my truck I can drop a few gas cans in my bed and be on my way.

I trully think hybrids are the smarter approach for trucks; it gives everybody time to build up the tech, build up the range, the grid etc. We're decades away from a useful electric truck for many owners.