Ball recommendations, payload, and other newbie towing questions

[revvr]

I've never towed anything in my life, but I would like to start. Initially, I find it much easier to tow my motorcycle (600 lbs) than to put it on the bed of my Rebel. It is also small and lightweight. However, I would eventually want to start moving up to rented campers, etc.

Since the Rebel sits high, I think I want a ball system that allows for movement up and down of the ball, as well as two ball sizes, in the same package. I believe Curt makes something like this. Would this be OK?

Now, my other question involves weight.

My truck has a payload capacity of 1191 lbs. I understand that this would be passengers, cargo, and tongue weight.

Assuming I have 4 people in the truck weighing a total of 640 lbs, 2 dogs weighing a total of 80 lbs, crates at 30 lbs, and cargo at 180, I'm left with 261 lbs for tongue weight. This seems decent for a motorcycle trailer, but what about something like an Airstream Flying cloud? Is loading the cargo on the trailer a thing and something that I can do to gain in the truck's payload capacity? I believe that even if I do this, I will be over payload capacity as I'm under the impression that a camper like the Airstream Flying cloud should have a tongue weight of 600-800 lbs, probably more?

 

[Sascwatch]

There are lots of options out there for adjustable hitches, they are your best bet if you tow multiple trailers but can get quite expensive. I use Curt hitches quite often as they are reasonably priced.

The payload on these trucks is pretty low due to all the extra stuff they have in them like ram boxes, multi function tailgate etc.
It’ll be hard to stay under the payload rating while towing any decent sized trailer with 4 occupants.

I don’t know much about travel trailers but I would suspect any trailer with room for 4 would require a weight distribution hitch, which would eat up at least 100lbs of payload alone.

You’ll have no issues with smaller open or enclosed cargo trailers, I tow a 7x17 enclosed that weighs approximately 4500-5000lbs loaded but with one or two occupants in the vehicle at most. My payload is 1324lbs.

 

[Turin]

Hitches with adjustable drop/rise and interchangeable balls are nice if you pull multiple trailers and none of them require weight distribution. For trailers over 5000 lbs you need weight distribution, at which point "adjustable" really means "set up for a particular truck/trailer combo" because part of the hitch is attached to the trailer. You'd only adjust it if you got a different truck or trailer and transferred the hitch.

You don't have enough payload to fill your truck with people and pets and pull a travel trailer, though you could probably pull a pop-up. Your payload is low, so even with just one passenger you'll be limited in how large of a trailer you can tow.

Loading gear in the camper instead of truck is absolutely normal. Assuming 10% tongue weight, 100 lbs in the truck is 100 lbs of payload, but would only be 10 lbs if it was in the camper. (Important: When loading gear into a camper, you have to pay attention to what goes where in order to get the tongue weight into the desired 10-12% range. Too much tongue weight eats into your payload and can overload your truck. Too little makes the trailer unstable and prone to sway.) Passengers/pets generally cannot (legally) ride in the trailer.

 

[revvr]

Thanks. On the bright side, this is also why I leased my first truck. I knew I was going to make mistakes with this kind of stuff. My immediate need is to pull my motorcycle, which I knew this truck could handle, even when loaded. By the end of this 3 year lease, I think I will have acquired the necessary knowledge to actually go out an buy one for the long term.

I do wish manufacturer advertising was better. They're all gunning for the highest towing weight, but it seems like the truck's actual payload is even more important than the trailer's weight. Without adequate payload, you really can't even get close to pulling something that is 8,000 lbs with two people in the truck. My truck with the 1,191 payload capacity is rated to tow 11,000 lbs which would likely need the truck to drive itself to save payload

 

[devildodge]

When you realize how they get the max towing number...you will know why this number is not obtainable for 98% of people and 99% of people towing a camper.

Max tow is GCWR minus base weight.

Sometimes they give an allowance of 300lbs of passenger and cargo. But lately it has just been what i stated. They used to do 10% tongue weight...but now they have it as part of the trailer to fudge up the numbers.

So. For your particular truck.

17000 GCWR. You stated your payload is 1191.

Base weight is GVWR minus payload.

Your GVWR is 7100. So base weight is 5909.

17000 minus 5909 is 11091. See how you do not have 11000 lb towing.

Ok. So if you do what they used to you take 470 pounds from that number. 2 passengers and the hitch. But you can already see at 10% tongue weight you only have room for 721 lbs of tongue weight...so a 7200lb trailer.

Most campers will have 12 to 14 % tongue weight.

So your max camper will only be, say at 13%, a 5500lb camper.

And then you still have 340 more lbs of passengers and 80lbs of dogs and a crate and cargo.

You definitely need a less optioned truck or seek a HeavyDuty for your intent.

A 1500 can tow...but it can not tow and haul

 

[revvr]

This is incredibly helpful. You just saved me hours of research. Thank you!

Can I just take the 14% as a rule of thumb? I'd rather be way under than a little over.

It does seem that loading the camper with the gear is the way to go in order to save payload and be able to dedicate those lbs to passengers and dogs.

I can justify a half ton to roll around town unloaded, which is what I do most of the time. But going to a 2500 just to pull a camper 3 times a year seems unjustifiable, both from a fuel economy perspective and overall size/price.

 

[devildodge]

This is incredibly helpful. You just saved me hours of research. Thank you!

Can I just take the 14% as a rule of thumb? I'd rather be way under than a little over.

It does seem that loading the camper with the gear is the way to go in order to save payload and be able to dedicate those lbs to passengers and dogs.

I can justify a half ton to roll around town unloaded, which is what I do most of the time. But going to a 2500 just to pull a camper 3 times a year seems unjustifiable, both from a fuel economy perspective and overall size/price.

Yes. You could do 14% for the tongue weight.

Remember when looking at trailers use the GVWR and not the UVW. It will not take long to be near GVWR...especially if you are planning to use the camper for cargo.

Here is an example for this process.

See the UVW is 3435. This is before propane and batteries and without anything in the camper.

The hitch weight is off the 3435 not the 4999 GVWR which is the number you want to do your hitch weight off of.

So 4999 at 14% is 700lbs.

If you look...the hitch weight they give is 426...so that is 12%...once you add propane and battery your about a 13% TW.

Then you just do your truck and passengers etc. To see what you can do.

The best thing you can do is go to CAT scale and find out exactly how your axle weights measure up.

I can explain that as well if you would like.

But this can get you started with some solid info.

 

[revvr]

Thanks again. This has been very helpful. For now, it seems like pulling a decent sized trailer with passengers and dogs on this truck is pushing it. 700 lbs at the hitch and 535 for me, wife, kid, dogs and nothing else (no crates), I'm already over payload by about 40 something pounds. That kind of sucks.

 

[revvr]

So I've been thinking about this thread this weekend, most notably why this Rebel is only rated for 1191 lbs payload when other similarly equipped Rebels are rated much higher in the 1700s and 1800s. I have the 33 gallon tank and other Rebels with the 33 gallon tank are able to hit those numbers.

For reference, my wife's Mazda CX-9 with a Turbo I4, is rated for 1190 lbs payload. My Volvo S90, also a turbo I4, is rated around 950 lbs, just a teenage girl less than my seemingly all mighty Rebel.

So what exactly would make this truck that has the same frame, engine, options, suspension, tires, transmission as others be so low in terms of payload?

Here's a good example of a similarly equipped truck. This one has the pano roof, while mine doesn't but does have Ramboxes. While ramboxes add weight, I can't imagine them adding an insane amount of it, especially when compared to the weight of a pano roof: https://www.ramtrucks.com/new-inven...e=27035&radius=100&matchType=X&statusCode=KZX

 

[devildodge]

@revvr your link didn't work.

Very very few rebels are going to be over 1600 lbs.

The link, was it to a VIN used number?

The charts and configurator will not be for a specific truck.

The RAM box is a huge hit to payload. Even more with the MFT.

Have you posted all the specifics to your truck?

I will check back in a bit to see what is up.

 

[Sascwatch]

If you add your trucks specs to your signature we will be able to figure out where all your payload went. Every option you add subtracts from the payload, and it adds up quickly.

My payload is 1324 with a max tow rating of 9710. With the diesel the gvwr is bumped up to 7200.

 

[revvr]

Truck specs on the signature will likely save a lot of time in the future. Added. Great suggestion.

Attaching the specs of the truck I had linked above as well.



The VIN on that particular truck is: 1C6SRFLT5LN422867

 

[devildodge]

Truck specs on the signature will likely save a lot of time in the future. Added. Great suggestion.

Attaching the specs of the truck I had linked above as well.

View attachment 70117 View attachment 70118

The VIN on that particular truck is: 1C6SRFLT5LN422867

That truck is 2wd

Edit: see next post.

 

[devildodge]

Ok....that dealer did a switch around...or however you found that info.

They used a configuration to get those numbers.

They used a 2wd configuration to get the payload and lied about the capabilities.

Never, ever trust the selling party.



Now it is much closer to yours.


And the max towing is bogus...i can explain why if you havent researched this so far.

 

[revvr]

Hold, on, there might be a mistake here. The truck in question is this one:



All screenshots are is being pulled from Ram's site, not the dealer's site. I didn't even look what at what the dealer claims it tows/payloads.

It's a 4x4 Rebel with the new styling, not the classic.

 

[devildodge]

Look above your red circles.

See 5380 curb weight and 6900 GVWR.

Well 6900 is 2wd.

A 4wd would be 7100 gas or 7200 diesel.

7100 minus your 1191 payload is 5909 curb weight

7100 minus the others 1292 payload is 5808 curb weight

6900 minus 5380 curb weight is 1520 payload.

See the lies...that other truck...the fake one they listed...the number would be 1520 payload...not 1720
However you found that info....it is wrong.

Only believe the door jamb info...or VIN lookup.

 

[revvr]

I think we posted at the same time. Look at my previous reply, the information is coming straight from RAM.

 

[devildodge]

Hold, on, there might be a mistake here. The truck in question is this one:

View attachment 70120

All screenshots are is being pulled from Ram's site, not the dealer's site. I didn't even look what at what the dealer claims it tows/payloads.

It's a 4x4 Rebel with the new styling, not the classic.

I explained that above.

Very odd that info came from RAM site. But it is unreliable unless you enter a VIN.

If something I wrote is confusing let me know.

That truck and your truck are only 101 pounds apart.
That would be your RamBox

 

[devildodge]

I have a payload of a REBEL I was looking at when this new generation came out. In our payload and towing thread...the payload was 1640...that was with no options.

In our payload and towing thread we have the weights for each option. Will see if i can find them.

 

[devildodge]

70 for sunroof and 163 for RAMBOX.

Pretty easy to see how that works now. Sorry it was so confusing getting there.